Are You a Fan of Fishing? Share Your Best Catches!

[Townsend]

I love fishing and ever since the semester has ended I have been out as much as possible. I love spring fishing but so far I have only caught a pike. It was big at about 24'' but still not what I wanted. I go for walleye and large mouth bass mostly.

If you have had any luck tell us about it. The big fish stories are always the best.

Regards

 

[franznietzsche]

I love fishing. I'll be spending a week up in far northern MInnesota fishing this summer, trolling for pike, jigs for panfish, tandem spinners for bass (and pike i suppose. Got one to leap over a boat once using one of those, damned funny sight). Very much looking forward to it all.

 

[hypatia]

I have a cabin on the shores of Lake Michigan in michigans upper. The fishing is great! Salmon, trout and giant cats! The little creek has some smelt now too.

 

[Integral]

No I do not fish, but will be spending Memorial Dayhere


go figure?

 

[Townsend]

http://img21.echo.cx/img21/8234/mypike13qr.jpg

Thats the pike I caught bewteen test during finial week. I needed to get my mind some where else and so I went out to the lake for a quick bite to eat and cast out my ol red and white dare devil and wham...he it...

I also had the pleasure of meeting some of the friendly locals

http://img21.echo.cx/img21/622/badboy9ft.jpg


I love the midwest...well at least during spring, summer and most of fall...

Hey franznietzsche, have you ever been to lake of the woods? I have heard some amazing stories about the fishing up there.

Regards

 

[franznietzsche]

No never been to lake of the woods. My dad's family lives in southern Minnesota, around Waseca, so we go fishing on the lakes there, and every summer the whole family heads up to Balsam, north of Grand Rapids. Fishing is usually crazy there. One summer we were pulling panfish out of the water left and right, like a piranha feeding frenzy. Catch 5-10 pound pikes. Its great.

 

[Moonbear]

Hey, Townsend, is that a fish you're holding, or are you just happy to see me? Sorry, couldn't resist, especially since you cut your face out of the photo!

I haven't gone fishing in ages. I never did the stream/river/lake freshwater fishing thing. I grew up on the coast, so it was all saltwater fishing in the bay. Mostly bottom fishing for flounder, sea bass, and snapper. I miss the water. I used to go out boating/fishing/crabbing nearly every weekend of the summer from the age of 2 to 14 (we put a canvas over the back of the boat and my sister and I camped out on the deck at night, thus always in our own best interest to do a good job helping swab the decks after a day of fishing ). Wow, do I miss that! We'd drive down on Friday night or Saturday morning, unload the gear, spend the night on the boat, if we arrived Friday night, we'd spend Saturday just boating and swimming, maybe a little fishing and crabbing, just enough for dinner Saturday night, then back to the dock, scrub the boat, bathe (it was really nice when they installed a shower at the boat yard, though it was always questionable if there'd be any hot water depending how many people were out swimming that day; otherwise it was the 5 gallon bucket of cold water for bathing...brrrrr), head to the boardwalk for a little while, then back and to sleep, then Sunday morning, get up, have breakfast, head out fishing, come back with the day's catch, scrub the boat and head home. Depending on how much we were catching, we either brought the fish home to clean (and I'd have fun chasing my grandmother with fish guts), or would just clean them as we caught them (my dad made a cutting board to mount on the side of the boat so he could just scrape the scales and guts over the side if we weren't using them for bait...the seagulls really enjoyed this). When all the gear was unpacked, the fish in the freezer or frying pan/oven, my sister and I hit the shower, had dinner, and then went off to sleep completely exhausted. I miss spending summer weekends that way!

 

[Chronos]

Townsend, be warned. That critter on the ground is not a pike.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Townsend, be warned. That critter on the ground is not a pike.

They raise those in farms, harvest the shells, and sell them to Klingons to wear on their foreheads.

 

[DocToxyn]

Townsend,

I got into flyfishing several years ago and it's a lot of fun. I don't get to do it much, but I try to get out when I can. I even went as far as to get the tools and materials to tie my own flies, it's relaxing and frustrating at the same time. I've caught numerous panfish and bass, but I'm still after my first trout.

Nice turtle! (no euphemisms intended) That species is my favorite, BTW did you notice if it smelled like anything familiar (serious question)?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

For the fly fisherman here, this is an old customer of mine.
http://www.snakeguides.com/

Mike and his wife are wonderful people and I understand that he makes the best!

 

[ron damon]

Why would anyone take any pleasure in putting an end to a life? Isn't it more rewarding to see a fish swimming around than to kill it? If I were a dictator I'd ban fishing altogether.

 

[Moonbear]

Why would anyone take any pleasure in putting an end to a life? Isn't it more rewarding to see a fish swimming around than to kill it? If I were a dictator I'd ban fishing altogether.

Then I'm glad you're not a dictator. What's the difference between catching it yourself or buying it at the fish market? It's probably less harmful to go out and catch it yourself than for those big trawlers to go out and net everything in their path. And at the same time, you get to enjoy being outside, watching the rest of nature around you. Oh, and fish tastes good!

 

[Danger]

http://img21.echo.cx/img21/622/badboy9ft.jpg

Quick, Evo! An uncircumcised one!

I used to go out boating/fishing/crabbing

Seems to me I've witnessed a wee bit of crabbing right here once in a while.

They raise those in farms, harvest the shells, and sell them to Klingons to wear on their foreheads.

And they sell them the smaller snapping turtles as merkins.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Why would anyone take any pleasure in putting an end to a life?

"...putting an end to a life..." isn't the pleasure of fishing at all, and you can't grasp why people fish if you misrepresent what is actually happening in their minds. Back in the day those who "got into" stalking and capturing animals and fish were the ones who ate best.

It is almost unnecessary for any individual to do this on his own behalf today, there being farms and fishing industries, but the original genes behind the practise haven't gone away yet. Those who fish and hunt might be viewed as a contigent of people "staying in practise" in the event something happens to make these skills a necessity again. They give us an advantage over having to relearn all this from scratch, in case of an emergency. I don't fish, myself, but I sometimes go down to the pier and watch the experts do it. Most of the people who fish off the pier here in San Diego are Asian and Mexican immigrants who are actually using their catch to suppliment their diets. They eat what they catch. I think a lot of fishermen do.

 

[Danger]

I don't fish, myself,

Liar! Trolling for trollops counts as fishing.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Liar! Trolling for trollops counts as fishing.

Please refrain from referring to the exquisite and refined and educated ladies of PF as trollops. It is "low" and besides they will kill you.

 

[Danger]

they will kill you.

As long as it's by suffocation or in a mud-wrestling accident, I'm down with that.

 

[franznietzsche]

As long as it's by suffocation or in a mud-wrestling accident, I'm down with that.

More likely to splatter you over the windshield of the supersonic RV. Much more likely.

 

[Danger]

More likely to splatter you over the windshield of the supersonic RV. Much more likely.

Naw. I've heard about MIH's driving. If I stand still in the middle of the road, there's no way she'd hit me.

 

[franznietzsche]

Naw. I've heard about MIH's driving. If I stand still in the middle of the road, there's no way she'd hit me.

But Evo would take over for the return pass, then you just stand in the gutter and you're good. But when Tsu takes over for the third pass...well let's just say that there is a reason Ivan still sleeps with one eye open.

 

[Danger]

when Tsu takes over for the third pass...

I thought that Tsu couldn't reach the pedals?

 

[franznietzsche]

I thought that Tsu couldn't reach the pedals?

No, its that she can't see over the wheel, cause she has to reach the pedals. That's the problem.

 

[Moonbear]

But Evo would take over for the return pass, then you just stand in the gutter and you're good. But when Tsu takes over for the third pass...well let's just say that there is a reason Ivan still sleeps with one eye open.

Heh heh. All bets are off when I'm behind the wheel! And if we miss with the windshield, there's always the bazooka on the roof, and MIH is a dead aim with that!

 

[Danger]

No, its that she can't see over the wheel, cause she has to reach the pedals.

Then that should put her accuracy on a par with MIH. Back to the middle of the road for me.

 

[franznietzsche]

Then that should put her accuracy on a par with MIH. Back to the middle of the road for me.

No it actually increases her accuracy. Something to do with the RV moving sideways...

 

[Integral]

Why would anyone take any pleasure in putting an end to a life? Isn't it more rewarding to see a fish swimming around than to kill it? If I were a dictator I'd ban fishing altogether.

My understanding this that the purest in these endeavors differentiate between "fishing" and "catching" to a purest, "catching" is nice but not necessary. Further if you examine my earlier link you will find that purest work on a strict, catch and release rule. So when a purest does indeed "catch" a fish, s/he is careful to release the creature with only emotional trauma.

I would think, knowing the fervor of both purest and "catchers" that any dictator attempting to stop this sport would have a very short reign.

 

[zoobyshoe]

My understanding this that the purest in these endeavors differentiate between "fishing" and "catching" to a purest, "catching" is nice but not necessary.

If anyone actually says this, I don't buy it. I think the whole challenge is to catch the fish. Fishing, in and of itself, with no care about actually catching a fish, could be done in a mud puddle, and no one does that. The important thing for Ron to realize is that "ending a life" isn't what people are focused on.

 

[Integral]

If anyone actually says this, I don't buy it. I think the whole challenge is to catch the fish. Fishing, in and of itself, with no care about actually catching a fish, could be done in a mud puddle, and no one does that. The important thing for Ron to realize is that "ending a life" isn't what people are focused on.

The whole point of fishing is that it is NOT done in a mud puddle. Fishing is done in special places. That is WHY catching is nice but not necessary. I guess you are not familiar with any of those that fly fish for Steelhead in the rivers of the PNW.

 

[DocToxyn]

I would also add that most flyfisherman either buy barbless hooks or crimp down the barbs so less damage is done to the fish. Other fisherman use things like circle hooks which practically eliminate cut gut-hooked fish. Some flyfisherman even go as far as to remove the hook completely and focus only on getting the fish to strike. In many cases you would be hard pressed to find people who care more about animals and the environment than hunters and fisherman.

 

[Townsend]

If anyone actually says this, I don't buy it. I think the whole challenge is to catch the fish. Fishing, in and of itself, with no care about actually catching a fish, could be done in a mud puddle, and no one does that. The important thing for Ron to realize is that "ending a life" isn't what people are focused on.

Agreed...well...mostly. I won't ever fish a stocked fishery because it has no real challenge to it. It is not just the fight but its trying to lure the fish into taking your bait. It can be a very rewarding experience.

What a lot of people don't realize is that I, like all the anglers I have ever meet, have more respect and admiration for nature then most people. I fully appreciate fish and find them very beautiful and elegant. But most importantly I understand, in a way that you cannot learn from a classroom, how delicate their environment really is. I personally support wildlife preservation and do more for it than 99 percent of the people in the world who will complain about me taking fish. I have done more to help fish live longer happier lives then any of them will. In fact, while I work to better the world they are inadvertently working against me.

Take a look at the Spoon Bill. While commercial fisherman fished the Spoon Bill nearly to extinction, it is now making a come comeback and I can honestly say that this is in large part due to sport fisherman wanting to keep their sport alive. Today it is making a comeback at Gavins Point Dam near Yankton South Dakota due to stocking efforts and extensive work to help keep the environment clean and healthy for them. While the happy nuclear family, who lives in suburbia bliss, ignorant of how commercial fishing, which is supported by their dollars spent at their local grocery story, is destroying the environment. Most of the people in the world live in cities and rarely if ever do they even venture out for a camping trip. And yet they are the ones complaining about hunting and fishing for sport the most. It really is kind of sick in my opinion.

The taking of a few fish each season really does no harm. If you understood how nature works you would understand that. That being said a lake CAN be over fished and in the past it has been a major problem. Today most serious anglers will only take fish of a certain size and will release more fish then they will take. Anglers today are more often then not, very well educated people who understand how balance in nature works. For us to keep our sport healthy we need to keep the environment healthy.

Also, I would like to point out that when you buy food from the grocery store you are helping the industry, which is supplying you that food, to expand. For every bit of food you eat there are animals that will suffer because of it in one way or another. This is true even if you are a vegan. Destroying habitat is very harmful and its effects are devastating to many species that cannot easily adapt to new environments. Now if you get your food from sport fishing then you are helping to expand an industry that works to preserve habitats. An industry in which there are more benefits then harms done to nature.

If you take away sportsmens/womens rights to fish and hunt then there will not be the kind of interest in preserving the environment that there is today. It takes more then lots of money and laws to help protect our environment. It takes people who care for and have a stake in it.


http://www.platteriver.org/backgr/sturg.htm

The Spoon Bill

 

[Townsend]

The whole point of fishing is that it is NOT done in a mud puddle. Fishing is done in special places. That is WHY catching is nice but not necessary. I guess you are not familiar with any of those that fly fish for Steelhead in the rivers of the PNW.

I guess I see your point too but I have never had the opportunity to go fly-fishing. It seems like it takes a lot of practice to learn just to cast a fly let alone learn to be a good at it. It seems that most fly fisherman fish in streams in or around mountains. I wonder what all kinds of fish strike fly’s? I know rainbow trout go for these about what about Bass in lakes and rivers? If anyone knows I would appreciate some information. I love fishing and being outdoors and anything that can keep it interesting is worthwhile.

So far the fishing has been really slow around here but as summer warms the waters it should pickup. If I get any nice catches I will post pics.

Regards,

 

[zoobyshoe]

Some flyfisherman even go as far as to remove the hook completely and focus only on getting the fish to strike.

This fullfills the minimun requirements for me to refer to it as "catching". Anyone who can get a fish to srike, could easily go on to actually hook it and reel it in. The fish is essentially "theirs". Anyone with this skill could eat in an emergency.

To say "fishing" is more important than "catching" implied to me that the fisherman is completely unconcerned with how the fish react, he just wants to cast. If we agree that he is concerned about manipulating the fish to the extent he could catch him if he wanted, then we're talking about the same thing, whatever we call it.

 

[DocToxyn]

I wonder what all kinds of fish strike fly’s? I know rainbow trout go for these about what about Bass in lakes and rivers? If anyone knows I would appreciate some information. I love fishing and being outdoors and anything that can keep it interesting is worthwhile.

Most fish will take a fly, if it is presented properly. Bass and panfish will eagerly accept many patterns and are typically the first fish that flyfisherman take (myself included). Ponds, river, streams, lakes, oceans they all can be covered with fly gear. Even fish such as carp can be taken with the right flies. If you search around the web for things like bass flies or bass bugs or go to one of the big retailers, Cabelas, BassPro, you'll see all the gear for all the fish. It can be really satisfying to catch and release a fish you caught with a fly you tied yourself.

 

[stoned]

. In many cases you would be hard pressed to find people who care more about animals and the environment than hunters and fisherman.

Yeah Right !

 

[Townsend]

Yeah Right !

I could never club a baby seal...you Canadians can be really weird sometimes. How is clubbing even sporting? What chance does that baby seal have? None...how is that even fun? Do you have to buy a license to club baby seals? What purpose does it even serve?

Edited for spelling errors.

 

[zoobyshoe]

What purpose does it even serve?

IIRC they are after the pelts. This is part of the fur industry. Those guys are not sport hunters, they're paid to go out and do that. Not that I don't think it's pretty grotesque.

 

[stoned]

I could never club a baby seal...you Canadians can be really weird sometimes. How is clubbing even sporting? What chance does that baby seal have? None...how is that even fun? Do you have to buy a license to club baby seals? What purpose does it even serve?

Edited for spelling errors.

Gov. of Canada pays them to kill huge number of young seals because according to them there are too many seals and they eat all our fishes.
and also it provides some employment for out of work fishermens.

PS.try to tell those guys that they are not hunters, they club you to death !

"Canada is most compassionate and environmently friendly country in the World" ! that is what I have to listen to on our TV and read in newspapers almost everyday !

 

[ron damon]

All the talk about the "beauties" and "subtleties" of fishing are no more than rationalizations for the very objective and real fact that you are destroying a viable life, something no human has a right to do.

I certainly appreciate the joys of being out in the wild, the scenery, air, green and blue, the tranquility, etc, associated with fishing, yet all of that can be had without doing any killing.

My point is metaphysical. There are a million practical reasons for us humans to consume other beings' lifes, yet I could not EVER contemplate involving myself in an activity whose sole purpose is to extract joy out of death.

 

[DaveC426913]

...you are destroying a viable life, something no human has a right to do.

According to whom? Rights are a purely human invention.

We have long hunted to eat. Just because some people feel that they no longer need to does not make it an immoral act.

I can't abide people who make personal judgements and expect that the rest of the world will just comply.

 

[Moonbear]

Gov. of Canada pays them to kill huge number of young seals because according to them there are too many seals and they eat all our fishes.
and also it provides some employment for out of work fishermens.

That makes it a commercial industry, not sport hunting. They're also not supposed to club the seals, they're supposed to shoot them to be more humane, but apparently these commercial hunters are not following the rules and not being held accountable when they don't. There is nothing sporting about clubbing baby seals.

This is the very distinction Townsend and Zooby have been making between those who go out and sport fish either to throw back the fish or keep only what they will eat and promote saving the surrounding ecosystem (part of the fun of fishing is getting to enjoy nature while you're at it...for some, holding the fishing rod is just something to do while enjoying a pretty lake and watching the birds fly past) vs commercial fishermen who will completely over-fish an area and destroy the ecosystem in the process. Commercial fishermen and hunters are only interested in making a profit (or predominantly interested in profit anyway; there are many who also recognize that their livelihood depends on a healthy environment where the fish they are catching can thrive, but certainly not all).

Here is an article that discusses last year's seal hunt with both the Canadian government's views and those of the animal activists.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3618901.stm

 

[Moonbear]

All the talk about the "beauties" and "subtleties" of fishing are no more than rationalizations for the very objective and real fact that you are destroying a viable life, something no human has a right to do.

If that's your view, then stop eating immediately! How many plants and animals and their habitats were destroyed in order to plow fields for the soybeans to make your tofu? Far more than my handful of fish that I plan to eat, unlike all those organisms that you had no intention of eating, which were destroyed to plant crops.

Agricultural expansion is severe in biodiversity hotspots
Agriculture has been expanding since the domestication of crop plants 10,000 years ago. But in the past three centuries, exponential human population growth has led to a 500% expansion in the extent of cropland and pasture world-wide (see box 1, figure a). In Europe and North America, unchecked agricultural development has already transformed many natural habitats and depleted their biodiversity. Similar transformation is now underway in the tropics, where most of the world’s biodiversity is found, with huge implications for both wildlife populations and ecosystem functioning. Endemic Bird Areas (EBAs), globally important centres of biodiversity, are under above-average threat from agricultural expansion (box 1, figure b). As tropical forests are the predominant natural habitat in EBAs, this tells us that they too are particularly threatened by agriculture.

From:http://www.birdlife.net/action/science/sowb/pressure/32.html

Habitat destruction, fragmentation, and degradation continue at a rapid pace in the United States, mostly outside parks. Development fragments habitat, creating barriers to wildlife movement and complicating ecosystem management at the regional and landscape levels. Scientific evidence shows that no park ecosystem can remain healthy as an isolated refuge in a sea of development, yet parks—even large ones—are becoming surrounded.

From:http://www.npca.org/wildlife_protection/biodiversity/report/threats/fragmentation.asp

In the Midwest, it is common to have more than 90 percent of a watershed used for row crop agriculture. Many areas, where farmers have used conservation practices such as reduced tillage, grassed waterways, strip or contour cropping, and terraces on at least 40 percent of the land, still experience some of the highest erosion rates...

As human population and living areas increase, wildlife is squeezed into ever smaller patches of habitat. In the Midwest, where only one in 10 acres is not used for either crop or pasture production, additional habitat can be critical to certain game and non-game wildlife species. Tile drainage that increased the amount of tillable land and allowed for bountiful harvests has dramatically reduced wildlife abundance and diversity. In North Dakota, 60 percent of the natural wetlands have been drained, compared to 90 percent lost in Iowa to agriculture and other uses.

From: http://www.extension.iastate.edu/Publications/PM1626A/IIa.html

 

[ron damon]

If that's your view, then stop eating immediately! How many plants and animals and their habitats were destroyed in order to plow fields for the soybeans to make your tofu? Far more than my handful of fish that I plan to eat, unlike all those destroyed to plant your vegetables that you had no intention of eating. Hunting and gathering for personal consumption is quite a natural way to survive.

So all of you go fishing because you're somehow starving and desperately in need of a source of protein, or because you just have a damn good time killing, and only later on find a lame excuse for it by eating the fish? ;-)

I'm not advocating extinction of our species by means of starvation. I am a practical man. Yet people going out on killing expeditions as a way of entertainment is a very sad and disillusioning sight...

 

[ron damon]

Rights are a purely human invention.

That's precisely it, my friend

 

[Townsend]

So all of you go fishing because you're somehow starving and desperately in need of a source of protein, or because you just have a damn good time killing, and only later on find a lame excuse for it by eating the fish? ;-)

I'm not advocating extinction of our species by means of starvation. I am a practical man. Yet people going out on killing expeditions as a way of entertainment is a very sad and disillusioning sight...

Fresh fish is very healthy. I do not eat the fish I take as an excuse but because I enjoy the meal and the making of the meal.

Where do you get your food from friend? Do you cry for the animals that lost their lives every time you sit down to eat?

You act like there is such a thing as a free lunch. Just because you did not physically kill the animal does not free you from any of the responsibility that goes along with its death.

 

[Integral]

So all of you go fishing because you're somehow starving and desperately in need of a source of protein, or because you just have a damn good time killing, and only later on find a lame excuse for it by eating the fish? ;-)

I'm not advocating extinction of our species by means of starvation. I am a practical man. Yet people going out on killing expeditions as a way of entertainment is a very sad and disillusioning sight...

Clearly you have not read the real contents of this thread. You should, before making such uninformed posts. Please actually read the thread before posting your opinions.

 

[Moonbear]

So all of you go fishing because you're somehow starving and desperately in need of a source of protein, or because you just have a damn good time killing, and only later on find a lame excuse for it by eating the fish? ;-)

I'm not advocating extinction of our species by means of starvation. I am a practical man. Yet people going out on killing expeditions as a way of entertainment is a very sad and disillusioning sight...

I find it more sad and disillusioning that people run off to the grocery store for their food with no understanding at all of how it somehow got from the land or water and into that package they are buying. Fishing and hunting keep you in touch with nature and provide a vested interest in preserving natural habitats, as opposed to showing up at the grocery store and demanding more pasta and tofu on the shelves, wanting your produce to look perfect, not caring what was destroyed to provide food for you, and content to remain oblivious to that information.

If you bothered to read the replies above, it is not about the killing. That farm-raised fish I buy at the grocery store is just as dead as the one I caught, although the one I catch myself is much fresher (tastier too), and didn't require gallons of diesel fuel to transport to me, and didn't require destroying a habitat to obtain.

I too am practical and realize that agriculture is a necessity in our society because most people aren't content to let those who can't catch their own food starve to death, but if you want to compare which is the greater evil, fishing and hunting for sport is not it.

 

[zoobyshoe]

All the talk about the "beauties" and "subtleties" of fishing are no more than rationalizations for the very objective and real fact that you are destroying a viable life, something no human has a right to do.

When it comes right down to it, the reason I don't fish is because I'm too squeamish to kill one, or even inconvenience it with catch and release. When I watch other people fish my question is "What is actually going on in their minds? Why do people do this when in isn't necessary any more for survival?"

The answer I can up with for myself is that this impulse to outsmart a fish (or a deer, or a bear etc.) has to have been responsible for early man's baseline survival. We haven't been away from the necessity of hunting and fishing long enough for it to have been bred out of us. I can't take a hard stance against it, because we may yet need it in case of emergency to survive.

I certainly appreciate the joys of being out in the wild, the scenery, air, green and blue, the tranquility, etc, associated with fishing, yet all of that can be had without doing any killing.

Yeah, but don't ignore what we've been telling you about not all fishermen killing their fish. As we said there are flyfishermen who don't even wan't to hook them. Others catch and release.

My point is metaphysical. There are a million practical reasons for us humans to consume other beings' lifes, yet I could not EVER contemplate involving myself in an activity whose sole purpose is to extract joy out of death.

This is good. Humans would also never have survived if we didn't also have a nurturing instinct. Why can't we lay off fishing, even if it ends up merely inconveniencing the fish with catch and release, if we aren't starving? I can. I just feel like it's good that the specific skills involved in catching a fish are kept alive by a minority of people, for the same reason, I guess, that there are people who know how to survive in the wilderness.

 

[ron damon]

Do you cry for the animals that lost their lives every time you sit down to eat?

As a matter of fact I do, and lately I've been experiencing some difficulties because of it, but maybe it's just that I'm insane ;-)

Nonetheless, there is a basic principle in jurisprudence called "bad acts and guilty minds". The two make up a crime. All of us have got to eat, so all of us are killers in a way. Yet, and this is what all of you never address in your replies, when you go hunting you are driven not by a need for food, but by the ENJOYMENT you take out of the experience. That makes you cold blooded killers.

Remember Einstein, who said something like "humanity could achieve no greater enlightenment than a transition to an all-vegetarian diet" (I'm paraphrasing of course).

 

[stoned]

fishing and hunting keeps you in touch with the nature ?
did you ever hear about hiking in the forest or walking besides the river ?