Can Negative Curvature Create Closed Spaces Like a Torus?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of negative curvature in cosmological models, particularly whether it can lead to closed spaces similar to a torus. Participants explore the relationship between curvature and the topology of the universe, considering both theoretical and practical aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that negative curvature is typically associated with infinite space, questioning if closed spaces like a torus can exist under such conditions.
  • Others emphasize the assumptions of a homogeneous and isotropic universe, which traditionally leads to three types of spaces: flat, spherical, and hyperbolic.
  • A participant references local to global theorems that suggest constraints on global topology based on local curvature, indicating that these theorems do not guarantee a direct correspondence.
  • There are discussions about various topologies that can exist in flat spaces, including toroidal and Mobius structures, and how these relate to curvature.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the implications of nonzero cosmological constants on spatial topology and the existence of a Big Crunch.
  • One participant conjectures that spatial topology may only have variability when spatial curvature is zero, while others explore the possibility of closed spatial sections in models with negative curvature, suggesting that certain symmetries may need to be relaxed.
  • References to specific models and literature are made, including the use of a 3-dimensional torus as a model for a closed universe with flat spatial sections.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; multiple competing views remain regarding the relationship between negative curvature and the potential for closed spaces. The discussion reflects a range of hypotheses and uncertainties.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific assumptions about homogeneity and isotropy, as well as unresolved questions regarding the implications of local to global theorems and the effects of cosmological constants on spatial topology.

taylrl3
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In my cosmology lectures they say that a negative curvature gives an infinite space but I was thinking what about the inside of a torus. Isn't that a closed space too?

Cant any value of k apart from 0 result in a closed space??
 
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Remember in cosmology though, we assume a homogeneous and isotropic universe, which results in just tress types of spaces (flat, sphere, hyperboloid).
 
taylrl3 said:
In my cosmology lectures they say that a negative curvature gives an infinite space but I was thinking what about the inside of a torus. Isn't that a closed space too?

Cant any value of k apart from 0 result in a closed space??

There are theorems called local to global theorems that constrain the global topology for a given curvature: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riemannian_geometry#Local_to_global_theorems These theorems are not so strong that they give a 100% correspondence between local and global properties.

As you've noted, a flat space can have various topologies, such as trivial, cylindrical, toroidal, Mobius... In the non-flat topologies, you get a preferred frame of reference, which is essentially the frame in which the circumference is maximized (as opposed to other frames which see the circumference as Lorentz-contracted).

There are various exotic possibilities for the global topology of the universe:
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/18368
http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0403597

One thing I didn't understand properly until recently was that in models with nonzero cosmological constants, the spatial topology is not necessarily correlated with the existence of a Big Crunch.

[EDIT] I don't pretend to understand the local to global theorems, and like the OP, I would be interested in hearing more about how this applies to spaces with nonvanishing curvature.

In the case of 2-dimensional space with a positive-definite metric, I do think I understand the possibilities to some extent. In the flat case, you have Euclidean geometry, which can have a variety of topologies (trivial, cylindrical, toroidal, Mobius). In the positive-curvature case, you get elliptic geometry, and all models of elliptic geometry are closed; that is, you can start from the axioms of elliptic geometry and prove results like an upper bound on the area of any triangle. I would be interested to know whether the negative-curvature case (hyperbolic geometry) admits any topology other than the usual one; I suspect that it doesn't.

Making the analogy with 3+1 dimensions, I would conjecture that you only get wiggle room on the spatial topology if the spatial curvature is zero.
 
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taylrl3 said:
In my cosmology lectures they say that a negative curvature gives an infinite space but I was thinking what about the inside of a torus. Isn't that a closed space too?

Cant any value of k apart from 0 result in a closed space??

It possible to have spacetimes that have closed (i.e., compact) spatial sections that don't have positive spatial curvature, but, as nicksauce has noted, some symmetry of the standard cosmological models has to be relaxed. Typically, (local) spatial homogeneity is retained. See articles by Luminet,

http://arxiv.org/abs/0802.2236
http://arxiv.org/abs/0704.3374

and Chapter 15, Spatially Homogeneous Universe Models, in the book Einstein's General Theory of Relativity With Modern Applications in Cosmology by Gron and Hervik.

A 3-dimensional torus (a compact quotient of Euclidean 3-space) can be used as a particular model of a (locally) homogeneous, closed universe that has flat spatial sections, and a compact quotient of 3-dimensional hyperbolic space can be used as a particular model of a (locally) homogeneous, closed universe that has spatial sections with negative curvature.
 
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