Butterfly Effect Movie's implications on our reality

[rody084]

Hi,
I just saw The Butterfly Effect in theaters yesterday after much much resistance... and i thought it was a GREAT movie... i don't know if the actual movie was great but the perspective on reality is what got me the most...

In this movie, whenever he reads a passage from one of his journals about something that happened to him in the past... he seems to "travel in time" and relive that memory and he is in total control and he can relive it however he wants.

Now most people that i talked to thought that the movie was all Sci-Fi-ish because of time travel and all that...

I think that they are wrong... here is my take on it:

i am a strong believer that "Reality" is merely a projection of our minds...

He isn't actually traveling back in time...he isn't going anywhere!

lets say he reads it at 11:21 with 14 seconds... he is still there at that very moment while he is reliving that reality... and when he "comes back" from it, it's still 11:21 with 14 seconds... he never shifts in time

This reminds me of what i think is called Lucid Dreams... dreams where you are actively in control of your actions (please correct me if that's the incorrect term)

So what he is doing is that he is accessing those memories from his past and he is actively changing them... changing those memories makes a domino effect on the memories that were already there just like real time travel would... and the reason that he goes into all those seizures is because in that very instant his brain has to re-organize itself and reform itself to reflect the changes (since those changes are instant, his physical brain changes must also be instant)

The fact that his father had the same ability also re-inforces the fact that it is just something he is living in his own mind... because he must have some kind of genetic trait which allows him to do this

i think this movie is a philosophical movie of the views that our reality is just a projection of our minds,

i don't know if i am explaning myself too well but i look forward to people's comments and views on this... not just the movie...but this idea in general

 

[phoenixthoth]

i loved that movie!

i experience blackouts and i journal frequently, so it was close to home for me.

i believe some people may even have the ability to change their minds, literally, on what they recall about the past. police know this. memory can change the color of a car from red to orange or from a pickup to a van.

 

[rody084]

i definately believe that people can change their minds... because what i think is that "reality" is just a projection of our minds... so of course our minds cna change anything on there.

we just have supressed our ability to manipulate our mind directly like that... because some people are able to do it... and some people have a temporary ability when they are in a trance of some sort... just like stigmatas and such...people have such a strong belief...which can be thought as a form of trance... that they actually make holes appear in their hands

by journal do you mean to record it in a log of sum sort?
what are your blackouts related to? (do you know?)

 

[phoenixthoth]

Originally posted by rody084
i definately believe that people can change their minds... because what i think is that "reality" is just a projection of our minds... so of course our minds cna change anything on there.

we just have supressed our ability to manipulate our mind directly like that... because some people are able to do it... and some people have a temporary ability when they are in a trance of some sort... just like stigmatas and such...people have such a strong belief...which can be thought as a form of trance... that they actually make holes appear in their hands

by journal do you mean to record it in a log of sum sort?
what are your blackouts related to? (do you know?)

yes, i record it.

the blackouts are my experience of being home, home of sorts anyway. a state of pure oblivion and timelessness not induced by drugs nor trauma.

 

[rody084]

Originally posted by phoenixthoth
the blackouts are my experience of being home, home of sorts anyway.

what do you mean by "home of sorts" if you don't mind me asking?

 

[phoenixthoth]

home as in a place of rest.

 

[rody084]

would it be too much to ask that you tell me what this place of rest is to you? i am really curious about this and what you percieve as this place of rest you like to call home

 

[phoenixthoth]

Originally posted by rody084
would it be too much to ask that you tell me what this place of rest is to you? i am really curious about this and what you percieve as this place of rest you like to call home

total peace. i have no memory of it so i can't recall any perceptions.

there's a line in a poem i wrote:
memory is biochemically concrete so there can’t be any “over there”

 

[Pergatory]

Originally posted by rody084
i definately believe that people can change their minds... because what i think is that "reality" is just a projection of our minds... so of course our minds cna change anything on there.

There's a great difference between changing what you remember, and changing what actually happened. It's been proven that people can alter their memories by reinforcement. They might be so sure that something happened they'd stake their lives on it, when it's not true at all. On the other hand, what you're talking about is completely different.

I think what you're saying is an interesting theory to toss around, but I don't think it has any merit in reality. This whole idea that humans have the ability to do certain things that they have "forgotten" how to do, or have not harnessed yet, seems unlikely to me. Consider the number of things that have been discovered in the past through mere random chance. Even now that we are advancing our knowledge at an unbelievable rate, we're discovering less and less new methods for doing things rather than more and more. I think if it were possible to travel through time using only your brain, it would've been discovered long ago. If anything allows you the ability, I'd have to guess it would be enlightenment. However, that would be ironic because to achieve such a state, time no longer has meaning. So there would be no point to travel.

 

[FZ+]

There's a great difference between changing what you remember, and changing what actually happened. It's been proven that people can alter their memories by reinforcement. They might be so sure that something happened they'd stake their lives on it, when it's not true at all. On the other hand, what you're talking about is completely different.

Let's play devil's advocate... Why? How does the past exist, except in our memories, both internal and in the world-memory of the things we observe?

 

[rody084]

Originally posted by Pergatory
There's a great difference between changing what you remember, and changing what actually happened.

deffinitly agree with you there... but i think that both of these things are done in about the same way... by really tapping into and talking directly to your brain

This whole idea that humans have the ability to do certain things that they have "forgotten" how to do, or have not harnessed yet, seems unlikely to me.

just because we are expanding our knowledge of things doesn't mean that we didnt completely overlook something in the past... also the way i think of it... is that we used to have all these wild instincts, survival instincts...which we have repressed to conform to our society... what is stopping us from repressing these abilities?

though probably not documented, people who had great control of their selves like this were probably burned at the stake and accussed of witchcraft (not literally...but my point is that people are so afraid of these abilities that they probably ended up hiding it from others so much that it ended up getting lost somewhere along the evolution of humans, just like those instincts)

we're discovering less and less new methods for doing things rather than more and more.

now are we talkin about material discoveries here? (as in computers, how to create material objects better, etc.)

If anything allows you the ability, I'd have to guess it would be enlightenment.

to my knowledge...enlightment is a state of mind... how is that different from a state of mind in which you can access your memories and do with them as you please?

isnt enlightment also about knowing yourself better? (sorry for the oversimplification)
well being able to control yourself in the ways i was mentioning is a perfect example of getting to know yourself better

that would be ironic because to achieve such a state, time no longer has meaning. So there would be no point to travel

maybe time has no meaning... maybe there is no such thing as time... if the reality we are living in is merely a projection of our minds... then time really has no meaning... all it is is a sequence of events... happening in the moment

Let's play devil's advocate... Why? How does the past exist, except in our memories, both internal and in the world-memory of the things we observe?

that is the only way it exists... in our memories... so why can't we change it if we just access those memories... it doesn't affect anyone else... and if we do change those memories... then it should reflect those changes in our being and the memories after those you modify for they will change too since the brain will re-equate reality based on taht small change that was made

 

[rody084]

Originally posted by phoenixthoth
biochemically concrete[/B]

what exactly does that mean?

 

[Pergatory]

Originally posted by FZ+
Let's play devil's advocate... Why? How does the past exist, except in our memories, both internal and in the world-memory of the things we observe?

The past exists separately as both memories in our head, and consequences of a chain of events that has taken place (world memory in your terms). We can change the memories in our head, but we cannot change the consequences of events past. For example, if someone has repressed the memory of being beaten as a child, does that mean that the parent who beat the child is innocent? No, because the effects of the assault have still altered the chemistry of the subject's brain. Let's take it one step further and say that the child's parent was arrested and imprisoned for abuse. Does the child's repression of that memory mean that the parent was never imprisoned?

 

[phoenixthoth]

Originally posted by rody084
what exactly does that mean?

based in the material.

 

[rody084]

Originally posted by Pergatory
Does the child's repression of that memory mean that the parent was never imprisoned?

great example...

here i think that it depends on your view of reality... if you believe that the world is a projection of our mind based on our character (or some other uniqueness about us) then yes, the parents would have never been imprisioned.

if you are living your own reality...then you shape it with your memories... so if u delete that memory of your parent getting arrested then yea it won't exist in your reality...it will have never happened.

there was someone who did extensive research on living in the moment... i cannot remember their name, does anyone know?


now if you think that reality really is real...then yea definately they are in prision and it doesn't matter what you repress.

 

[phoenixthoth]

are you talking about tony parsons' "as it is?"

 

[rody084]

Originally posted by phoenixthoth
are you talking about tony parsons' "as it is?"

I am actually not familiar with tony parsons... online searches only yielded results of his book...but no one really talks about what he says/his views...

do you think you could enlighten me a bit?

 

[phoenixthoth]

i never read his book "as it is" or any other book. i was just wondering if that was the name on the tip of your tongue. i guess it wasn't. i read part of it and it was all resonating with what i had known anyway though one day i'll pick it up again. i happen to have it in electronic format but i was asked to not give that out because it's copyrighted.

 

[rody084]

oh... yea... never heard of him until u mentioned him just now

 

[Pergatory]

Originally posted by rody084
great example...

here i think that it depends on your view of reality... if you believe that the world is a projection of our mind based on our character (or some other uniqueness about us) then yes, the parents would have never been imprisioned.

if you are living your own reality...then you shape it with your memories... so if u delete that memory of your parent getting arrested then yea it won't exist in your reality...it will have never happened.

there was someone who did extensive research on living in the moment... i cannot remember their name, does anyone know?


now if you think that reality really is real...then yea definately they are in prision and it doesn't matter what you repress.

Let us take this one step further. The idea that reality is a projection of your own memories implies that your memories are the only thing that truly exist. Otherwise, to alter your memories, they would conflict with the memories of others and create a paradox. Therefore, by suggesting that reality is a projection of your memories, you are essentially implying that you are God and we are figments of your imagination.

 

[rody084]

Originally posted by Pergatory
Therefore, by suggesting that reality is a projection of your memories, you are essentially implying that you are God and we are figments of your imagination.

pretty much yea... that's how i feel a lot of times... that it is just me here...and everyone else is just a projection of my mind... because it seems that everyone that I know has a sort of base personality resemblance to me... but yet they are definately different in how they act/attitudes...but i see a constant that makes me think about myself in everyone.

 

[elibol]

Pergatory said:
"I think if it were possible to travel through time using only your brain, it would've been discovered long ago. If anything allows you the ability, I'd have to guess it would be enlightenment. However, that would be ironic because to achieve such a state, time no longer has meaning. So there would be no point to travel."

i don't think it would have been discovered long ago, because i feel evolution is infinite, our intelect is evidence of this. i believe we will evolve in ways unimaginable, and possibly eventually to a point where we do have control over time. the irony is exactly what makes sense that it would be possible-> in einsetins theory of relativity a location is not only a point in space, but a point in space-time. looking at time as a fourth dimension it doesn't seem to me too far fetched that we would eventually be able to navigate thru time... how existence would proceed from that point on (saying from that point on doesn't really make sense, but since i cannot navigate time i don't know how else to describe it.) would be highly complex and incomprehensible to us at this point, as our existence is incomprehendable to most animals that roam the planet.


imma go out on a limb now:
if there are beings that exist that do navigate both space and time, we would be unaware of their existence, for they would have complete control over all events...

you can assume how and how we will not evolve, but u can't be sure of anything past a certain point based on our believes on how we have evolved to what we are. to think, something from NOTHING. this NOTHING is so perplexing to me that i believe we will evolve in ways that are unimaginable...

IF, we survive that long...

 

[elibol]

Originally posted by rody084
pretty much yea... that's how i feel a lot of times... that it is just me here...and everyone else is just a projection of my mind... because it seems that everyone that I know has a sort of base personality resemblance to me... but yet they are definately different in how they act/attitudes...but i see a constant that makes me think about myself in everyone.

that doesn't imply that he is god in any way, it just means that he refuses to comply with the consqeunces rippled in the world, for example-> the officers that arrested the abused child, the report that might have been done on it from the media, and anyone else that may have a hand or association to this event in any fashion is falsified because the abused child cannot deal with his memories?

i don't think so, i think the majority of the people involved with the event or that have heard of the event would agree that the event accually took place... we can back this up too since we are using reality in itself as the argument that there was a camera recording the father abusing the child...

now there is video evidence that his event took place, you decide "oh, if i just say that this didnt happen it really didnt, and the world has to comply with what i think". if everyone's memory is affected with this "memory/world" altering ability you posses then you have an extra-ordinary ability, like the character in in butterfly effect...

or else you are what i could probably diagnose as dillusional and insane.

your reality would be meaningless without me or anyone else in this worlds recognition of your existence, your ability to have an effect on anything, and your memories...

if your memories disagree with what the world agree's with, you are detached. simple as that...

 

[rody084]

Originally posted by elibol
or else you are what i could probably diagnose as dillusional and insane.

Most likely...lol

your reality would be meaningless without me or anyone else in this worlds recognition of your existence, your ability to have an effect on anything, and your memories...

maybe that explains why i am always trying to help everyone and i am always trying to make a positive difference on everything



about what you were saying before...
I definately do see your point that just because i say it didnt happen doesn't mean that no one else will know of it... the only way that would work is if, my dilusional and insane, theory of the world being my projection is true... in that case, i make everyone's memories, so there would b no conflict