SR predictions on an recent microwave experiement

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter lalbatros
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Microwave Sr
Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The forum discussion centers on a recent paper by Prof. Thim, which claims to invalidate the Special Relativity (SR) prediction of the transverse Doppler effect for microwaves through an experimental setup involving homodyne frequency-shift detection. The setup includes a fixed source and detector with a rotating emission-reception system. Participants assert that the lack of relative motion between the source and detector negates the expected Doppler shift, reinforcing that SR predicts a null result, as confirmed by previous analyses.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of Special Relativity principles
  • Familiarity with Doppler effect concepts
  • Knowledge of homodyne frequency-shift detection techniques
  • Basic grasp of experimental physics methodologies
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the implications of the transverse Doppler effect in various physical contexts
  • Study homodyne detection methods in microwave experiments
  • Explore the Lorentz Transformations and their applications in modern physics
  • Investigate critiques of experimental setups in physics literature
USEFUL FOR

Physicists, students of relativity, experimental researchers, and anyone interested in the nuances of microwave experiments and the validity of Special Relativity predictions.

lalbatros
Messages
1,247
Reaction score
2
I quickly read the followoing IEEE paper:

http://www.atomicprecision.com/blog/wp-filez/Thim%20-%20Absence%20of%20the%20relativistic%20Doppler%20effect%20...%20.pdf

The author claims he proved that he invalidated experimentally the SR prediction of a transverse Doppler effect for microwaves.
Its experimental setup is shown in figure 1.

Basically, an homodyne frequency-shift detection is used.
It involves a fixed source and a fixed detector.
The setup involves two paths: a "reference path" and an "active path".
In the active path, the microwave beam passes trough a rotating emission-reception system.
Because of the rotation of the beam within the "active path", the author claims a transverse Doppler effect should be observed.
The author did not detect any shift and concluded this invalidates SR.

I think this paper is totally wrong in its analysis and its conclusion. Experimental results are right but useless.
The source and the detector have no relative motion and therefore I would not expect ant Doppler shift.
In addition, if one considers a even simpler version of this experiment, the conclusion of "no Doppler shift expected" is even more obvious to me. This simplified version would be based on a cylindrical cavity in the "active path" whose walls would be rotating. It is clear that rotating walls would make any difference compared with fixed wall: reflexion on perfect conducting walls does not depend on the transverse motion.

I would like to elaborate on my first impression.
I am interrested by your own ideas and comments on this experiement as well as in the basic theory to analyse such experiments in general.

Thanks
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Hi,

I did a quick analysis of this experiment one year ago, showing that SR predicts a null result, as measured. Sorry it's in German; in English: your first impression is right, emitter and source are at rest, that's it. What's happening between: the wavefront is blueshifted and tilted as seen by the rotating disk, and will be re-emitted blueshifted and tilted. No change happens.

I had a rather lengthy discussion with Prof. Thim via e-mail concerning another paper where he thought to show an inconsistency in the Lorentz Transforms. He emerged as a full scale crank, beyond any reasoning. Hard to believe that he was (is?) still teaching students at the University of Linz.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 128 ·
5
Replies
128
Views
34K
  • · Replies 127 ·
5
Replies
127
Views
27K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
5K