12.3.63 Determine the smallest distance between point and a line

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the smallest distance between a point \( P(1,1,1) \) and a line \( L \) that passes through the origin with a given direction vector \( \langle -4,-5,8 \rangle \). Participants explore various mathematical approaches and formulations related to this problem, including distance formulas and vector representations.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant introduces a distance formula involving coefficients of the line equation and coordinates of the point.
  • Another participant presents a vector representation of points along the line and questions how to calculate the square of the distance to the point \( (1,1,1) \).
  • There is a reiteration of the vector representation of the line and a request for clarification on calculating the distance between the point on the line and the given point.
  • A participant suggests developing a general formula for the distance between a point and a line defined by two points, providing a detailed mathematical derivation.
  • Further calculations are presented, including the differentiation of the distance function and the conditions for finding the minimum distance.
  • Finally, a specific calculation for the minimum distance using the cross product is provided, leading to a numerical result.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on a single method for calculating the distance, as multiple approaches and formulations are discussed. There is also some confusion regarding the interpretation of distance calculations, indicating a lack of agreement on the best method.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various mathematical steps and assumptions that may not be fully resolved, such as the dependence on the definitions of distance and the specific parameters used in the calculations.

karush
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$\text{Determine the smallest distance between point}$
$$P(1,1,1)$$
$\textsf{ and the line $L$ through the origin $L$ has the direction}$
$$\langle -4,-5,8 \rangle$$

ok just barely had time to post this
but was ?? about direction

presume going off of this

$\textit{Distance between point and line }$
$\textit{ Where A,B, and C are coeficients of line equation And M, N are coordinates of a point}$
\begin{align*}\displaystyle
d&=\frac{|Am+Bn+C|}{\sqrt{A^2+B^2}}
\end{align*}
 
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A vector along the line is given by:

$$\vec{v}=\left[\begin{array}{c}-4t \\ -5t \\ 8t \end{array}\right]$$

So, what is the square of the distance between a point on the line with parameter $t$ and the point $(1,1,1)$?
 
MarkFL said:
A vector along the line is given by:

$$\vec{v}=\left[\begin{array}{c}-4t \\ -5t \\ 8t \end{array}\right]$$

So, what is the square of the distance between a point on the line with parameter $t$ and the point $(1,1,1)$?

ok not real sure what you mean by this

$\sqrt{(-4)^2+(-5)^2+(8)^2}$ ?
 
karush said:
ok not real sure what you mean by this

$\sqrt{(-4)^2+(-5)^2+(8)^2}$ ?

Let's back up a bit...a point on the line is:

$$(-4t,-5t,8t)$$

And the given point is:

$$(1,1,1)$$

What is the square of the distance between these two points?
 
sorry this looks like duplicate post done much earlier
somehow it never got recorded on the HW

mod can delete :(
 
karush said:
sorry this looks like duplicate post done much earlier
somehow it never got recorded on the HW

mod can delete :(

Yes, this is a duplicate of the thread posted here:

http://mathhelpboards.com/calculus-10/231-12-3-65-determine-smallest-distance-between-point-line-22060.html

The method used there was what I had in mind for finding the required distance.

However, let's take this opportunity to develop a general formula. Suppose we have a line described by the two points:

$$P_1\left(x_1,y_1,z_1\right),\,P_2\left(x_2,y_2,z_2\right)$$

And the point:

$$P_0\left(x_0,y_0,z_0\right)$$

And so a vector along the line can be given as:

$$\left[\begin{array}{c}x_1+\left(x_2-x_1\right)t \\ y_1+\left(y_2-y_1\right)t \\ z_1+\left(z_2-z_1\right)t \end{array}\right]$$

And thus, the square of the distance $D$ between a point on the line with parameter $t$ and the given point is:

$$f(t)=D^2(t)=\left(\left(x_1-x_0\right)+\left(x_2-x_1\right)t\right)^2+\left(\left(y_1-y_0\right)+\left(y_2-y_1\right)t\right)^2+\left(\left(z_1-z_0\right)+\left(z_2-z_1\right)t\right)^2$$

Expanding, we get:

$$f(t)=\left(\left(x_1-x_0\right)^2+\left(y_1-y_0\right)^2+\left(z_1-z_0\right)^2\right)+2\left(\left(x_1-x_0\right)\left(x_2-x_1\right)+\left(y_1-y_0\right)\left(y_2-y_1\right)+\left(z_1-z_0\right)\left(z_2-z_1\right)\right)t+\left(\left(x_2-x_1\right)^2+\left(y_2-y_1\right)^2+\left(z_2-z_1\right)^2\right)t^2$$

Using vector notation, this becomes:

$$f(t)=\left|\vec{P_1}-\vec{P_0}\right|^2+2\left(\vec{P_1}-\vec{P_0}\right)\cdot\left(\vec{P_2}-\vec{P_1}\right)t+\left|\vec{P_2}-\vec{P_1}\right|^2t^2$$

Differentiating w.r.t $t$ and equating the result to 0 and solving for $t$, we find:

$$t=-\frac{\left(\vec{P_1}-\vec{P_0}\right)\cdot\left(\vec{P_2}-\vec{P_1}\right)}{\left|\vec{P_2}-\vec{P_1}\right|^2}$$

Observing that $f$ is a parabolic function opening upwards, we can then state:

$$f_{\min}=f\left(-\frac{\left(\vec{P_1}-\vec{P_0}\right)\cdot\left(\vec{P_2}-\vec{P_1}\right)}{\left|\vec{P_2}-\vec{P_1}\right|^2}\right)=\left|\vec{P_1}-\vec{P_0}\right|^2-\frac{\left(\left(\vec{P_1}-\vec{P_0}\right)\cdot\left(\vec{P_2}-\vec{P_1}\right)\right)^2}{\left|\vec{P_2}-\vec{P_1}\right|^2}$$

$$f_{\min}=\frac{\left|\vec{P_1}-\vec{P_0}\right|^2\left|\vec{P_2}-\vec{P_1}\right|^2-\left(\left(\vec{P_1}-\vec{P_0}\right)\cdot\left(\vec{P_2}-\vec{P_1}\right)\right)^2}{\left|\vec{P_2}-\vec{P_1}\right|^2}$$

Using the vector quadruple product, we may write:

$$f_{\min}=\left(\frac{\left|\left(\vec{P_2}-\vec{P_1}\right)\times\left(\vec{P_1}-\vec{P_0}\right)\right|}{\left|\vec{P_2}-\vec{P_1}\right|}\right)^2$$

Hence:

$$D_{\min}=\frac{\left|\left(\vec{P_2}-\vec{P_1}\right)\times\left(\vec{P_1}-\vec{P_0}\right)\right|}{\left|\vec{P_2}-\vec{P_1}\right|}$$

Now, in the given problem, we may take:

$$\vec{P_0}=\langle 1,1,1 \rangle$$

$$\vec{P_1}=\langle 0,0,0 \rangle$$

$$\vec{P_2}=\langle -4,-5,8 \rangle$$

And so we have:

$$\vec{P_2}-\vec{P_1}=\langle -4,-5,8 \rangle$$

$$\vec{P_1}-\vec{P_0}=\langle -1,-1,-1 \rangle$$

And we then find:

$$\left(\vec{P_2}-\vec{P_1}\right)\times\left(\vec{P_1}-\vec{P_0}\right)=\langle 13,-12,-1 \rangle$$

So, we have:

$$D_{\min}=\sqrt{\frac{13^2+12^2+1^2}{4^2+5^2+8^2}}=\sqrt{\frac{314}{105}}\quad\checkmark$$
 
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