1st order PDE, quadratic in derivatives, two variables analytic solution?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of obtaining an analytic solution for a first-order partial differential equation (PDE) that is quadratic in derivatives, specifically in two variables. The participants explore boundary conditions and methods for solving the PDE, including the method of characteristics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the PDE (v_r)^2 + (v_z)^2 = p^2 and asks about the possibility of finding an analytic solution given certain boundary conditions.
  • Another participant expresses belief that an analytic solution exists for suitable p(z,r) and boundary conditions but raises concerns about the boundary condition at infinity.
  • A correction is made regarding the boundary condition at infinity, suggesting it should be p = c*r*exp(-r/a)exp(-|z|/b) instead, and discusses alternative forms for the z dependence of p.
  • Participants discuss the method of characteristics as a potential approach for finding an analytic solution, with one participant indicating uncertainty about applying this method to fully non-linear problems.
  • One participant expresses gratitude and willingness to attempt solving the PDE based on the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the existence of an analytic solution, as concerns about the boundary conditions at infinity remain. Multiple views on the appropriate boundary conditions and methods for solving the PDE are present.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of boundary conditions and express uncertainty about the implications of different forms of these conditions on the existence of a solution. The discussion reflects a lack of clarity on how to apply the method of characteristics to the specific problem at hand.

Syntheta
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I have the PDE:

(v_r)^2+(v_z)^2=p^2 where v=v(r,z), p=p(r,z).

I have some boundary conditions, of sorts:
p=c*r*exp(r/a)exp(z/b) for some constants a,b,c, at r=infinity and z=infinity
p=0 at f=r, where
(f_r)^2=p*r/v-v*v_r
(f_z)^2=p*r/v+v*v_r

Is it possible that one could obtain an analytic solution (with some unknown constants of course)? Or if one has to use numerical integration, what would be the best method?

Thanks in advance!
 
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Yes, as far as I'm aware an analytical solution does exist for suitable p(z,r) and boundary conditions. However, I am concerned about the condition at infinity:
Syntheta said:
p=c*r*exp(r/a)exp(z/b) for some constants a,b,c, at r=infinity and z=infinity
Are you sure about this?
 
Hootenanny said:
Yes, as far as I'm aware an analytical solution does exist for suitable p(z,r) and boundary conditions. However, I am concerned about the condition at infinity:

Are you sure about this?

Hah, oops, I meant
p=c*r*exp(-r/a)exp(-|z|/b) for some constants a,b,c, at r=infinity and z=infinity.

The z dependence of p at infinity could also be exp(-z^2/b), sech(z/b) or sech^2(z/b). At this point I'm more interested in getting a solution than exactly how fast it falls off.

Would one use method of characteristics for an analytic solution? I think our whole class was a bit lost in PDEs, so I'm having a bit of trouble getting anything out.
 
Syntheta said:
Hah, oops, I meant
p=c*r*exp(-r/a)exp(-|z|/b) for some constants a,b,c, at r=infinity and z=infinity.

The z dependence of p at infinity could also be exp(-z^2/b), sech(z/b) or sech^2(z/b). At this point I'm more interested in getting a solution than exactly how fast it falls off.

Would one use method of characteristics for an analytic solution? I think our whole class was a bit lost in PDEs, so I'm having a bit of trouble getting anything out.
Those conditions at infinity are much better! :approve:

Yes, the method of characteristics should prove sufficient here. If you are unsure on how to apply the method to fully non-linear problems, take a look at this PDF: http://www.stanford.edu/class/math220a/handouts/firstorder.pdf from page 16 onwards. The first example is an equation of the same form as you have here.

Anyway, take a stab at it and let us know if you get stuck.
 
Last edited:
Thankyou! I'll see how I go :)
 

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