2nd Order Perturbation Theory Energy Correction

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the proof for the second order energy correction in perturbation theory, specifically focusing on the use of Dirac notation and the manipulation of Hamiltonian operators. Participants are exploring the mathematical details and potential pitfalls in the derivation process.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about their approach to proving the second order energy correction and seeks confirmation on their use of Dirac notation.
  • Another participant advises caution regarding the manipulation of sums and the use of complex conjugates in the calculations.
  • A participant questions the reasoning behind the complex conjugate operation and its implications for the terms involved, particularly in relation to self-adjoint operators.
  • There is a clarification that while self-adjoint operators have real eigenvalues, this does not imply that every term in the calculation is real.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the importance of careful manipulation of terms and the properties of self-adjoint operators, but there remains some confusion regarding specific mathematical operations and their implications.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully resolved the nuances of complex conjugation in the context of their calculations, and there are indications of missing assumptions regarding the nature of the operators involved.

electrogeek
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Hi everyone,

I'm struggling with the proof for the second order energy correction for perturbation theory when substituting in the first order wavefunction. I have attached an image of my current proof for it below, but I'm not sure whether this is the correct approach for it (the H's in the calculations below are hamiltonian operators)! I'm still quite new to using Dirac notation for these calculations so thought I should double-check it.

Cheers!

Screenshot 2020-03-28 at 13.10.16.png
 
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You seem to have the right idea. Be careful you don't take objects outside of sums when they have the sum index (you have done this in your derivation). Second, check your use of the complex conjugate.
##\langle\psi|\hat{A}|\chi\rangle^*=\langle\chi|\hat{A}^{\dagger}|\psi\rangle##
 
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Thank you for the help! I've now got to this stage which I've attached below instead of taking the ket out of the summation like I did previously:

Screenshot 2020-03-28 at 15.39.06.png


But I'm confused why taking the complex conjugate of the first term in the numerator isn't just swapping around the terms in the bra and the ket?
 
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Alright, good. I think you've ironed out the calculational problems.

electrogeek said:
But I'm confused why taking the complex conjugate of the first term in the numerator isn't just swapping around the terms in the bra and the ket?

When the operator sandwiched between the bra and ket is self-adjoint ##A^{\dagger}=A##, which is true for the Hamiltonians you are concerned with, then complex conjugating is "just swapping" the terms around. However, just because an operator is self-adjoint and has real eigenvalues that does not mean that a generic term ##\langle\psi|\hat{H}|\chi\rangle## is real.
 
Haborix said:
Alright, good. I think you've ironed out the calculational problems.
When the operator sandwiched between the bra and ket is self-adjoint $A^{\dagger}=A$, which is true for the Hamiltonians you are concerned with, then complex conjugating is "just swapping" the terms around. However, just because an operator is self-adjoint and has real eigenvalues that does not mean that a generic term ##\langle\psi|\hat{H}|\chi\rangle## is real.

Ah brilliant! Thank you very much for all the help. :)
 
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My pleasure, happy studying!
 

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