Confused about perturbation theory

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around perturbation theory in quantum mechanics, specifically focusing on the effects of parity-odd and parity-time-odd perturbing Hamiltonians on energy states. Participants explore the implications of second-order corrections to energy and wave functions, as well as the differences between P-odd and P,T-odd potentials.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents calculations regarding the second-order energy corrections for states with fixed parity under a P-odd perturbing Hamiltonian, questioning why the expectation value does not match the predicted energy shift.
  • Another participant suggests that second-order impacts on the wave function could lead to differences in expectation values, indicating that a higher-order calculation might be necessary.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about the effects of P,T-odd potentials and how they would alter the calculations, noting potential complications due to hermicity and anti-hermicity.
  • One participant mentions that symmetry might simplify the analysis, but acknowledges a lack of clarity on the implications of symmetry breaking.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the relationship between the expectation value and the second-order energy correction, nor on the implications of P,T-odd potentials. Multiple competing views and uncertainties remain regarding the calculations and their interpretations.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential complications arising from the properties of the perturbing Hamiltonians, including the need for higher-order corrections and the effects of symmetry on the calculations.

Malamala
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Hello! Let's say we have 2 states of fixed parity ##| + \rangle## and ##| - \rangle## with energies ##E_+## and ##E_-## and we have a P-odd perturbing hamiltonian (on top of the original hamiltonian, ##H_0## whose eigenfunctions are the 2 above), ##V_P##. According to 1st order perturbation theory, the corrections to energy for both states is zero. So in order to get any difference in energy we need to go to second order and there the correction to, say, ##| + \rangle## state is:
$$E_+^2 = \frac{|\langle-|V_P|+\rangle|^2}{E_+-E_-}$$ Also the first order correction to the wavefunction implies that ##| + \rangle## becomes:
$$| + \rangle' = | + \rangle + \frac{\langle-|V_P|+\rangle}{E_+-E_-}| - \rangle$$ Now if I want to calculate the expectation value of the energy in this ##| + \rangle'## state, I would get

$$'\langle+|H_0+V_P| + \rangle' = \frac{\langle+|V_P| - \rangle\langle-|V_P|+\rangle}{E_+-E_-}+\frac{(\langle-|V_P| + \rangle)^\dagger\langle-|V_P|+\rangle}{E_+-E_-} + E_+ + \frac{|\langle-|V_P|+\rangle|^2}{(E_+-E_-)^2}E_-$$

So the correction to the energy would be:

$$\frac{\langle+|V_P| - \rangle\langle-|V_P|+\rangle}{E_+-E_-}+\frac{(\langle-|V_P| + \rangle)^\dagger\langle-|V_P|+\rangle}{E_+-E_-} + \frac{|\langle-|V_P|+\rangle|^2}{(E_+-E_-)^2}E_-$$

So there are a few things I am confused about (please let me know if I did any calculation mistakes):

1. Why isn't the expectation value I calculated in the last equation above, equal to the predicted shift in energy by the 2nd order correction? It seems like the expectation value is also second order in ##V_P##, so shouldn't they be the same?
2. If instead of ##V_P## I have a ##V_{PT}## i.e. a potential that is P,T-odd, what should I change in these calculations? In the case of parity it is clear when an expectation value is zero or not, based on the parities of the wavefunctions and the hamiltonian, but what should I do in case the potential is T-odd, too? The tricks from P-odd still applied (i.e. if a matrix element is zero for a P-odd, it is zero for a P,T-odd, too), but what further constraints do I get if I add the T-odd on top?

Thank you!
 
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Second-order impacts on the wave function should still lead to differences in the expectation value via the different coefficients for E+ and E-. I would expect that you need to calculate one order more.
 
mfb said:
Second-order impacts on the wave function should still lead to differences in the expectation value via the different coefficients for E+ and E-. I would expect that you need to calculate one order more.
Thanks! Seems like you are right. I assumed that the second order wave-function would give 3rd order corrections in energy only. Do you have any insight about P-violating vs. P,T violating potentials? I am not sure how would the derivation would change in that case. In principle I am not sure if it would hold at all, as I would get some minus signs from hermicity/anti-hermicity which would screw up my previous derivation.
 
I don't know. Symmetry might simplify some things (and the absence could make it more complicated) but I don't know.
 

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