I am under the impression that people generally believe supervenience to be a physicalist view on consciousness, whereas i think it is the opposite. In the wikipedia link below, there are 4 criticisms of supervenience-based physicalism. The one i'm talking about here isnt mentioned, so i want to put it up for scrutiny. Supervenience: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supervenience http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/supervenience/ In the wikipedia link, on the right side you can see an image that says: Code (Text): [CENTER]LEVELS OF EXISTENCE ____________________ social groups | living things | cells | molecules | atoms | elementary particles ____________________ [SIZE="1"]The upper levels on this chart can be considered to supervene on the lower levels.[/SIZE][/CENTER] I think this image illustrates where it goes wrong. It starts right at the top where it says "levels of existence". I think this should be "levels of description". The molecule-level is a higher level description than the atom-level. These descriptions are conceptualisations, done by human minds. Physically, there is only one level of existence, the lowest one, and all the other levels can be said to consist of that. Cells consist of molecules, molecules consist of atoms, atoms consist of elementary particles. So they are " = " relationships. A human mind can introduce an arbitrary number of new levels of description, but this has no physical consequence as the elementary particles are still just elementary particles. When it is said that mind supervenes on brain, it translates to mind = brain, meaning: mind = a group elementary particles, meaning: a group of elementary particles = mind. That means mind has been around as long as those particles have, not to mention the universal nature of the properties of elementary particles. The loophole to avoid this was the view that mind somehow exists at a higher level, but my argument above is that such higher levels are purely conceptual, so they depend on a mind to exist and cannot have come about without mind.