The discussion centers on the theoretical implications of a muon entering a lithium hydride (LiH) environment within lithium batteries and its potential to cause spontaneous combustion in electric vehicles. Participants clarify that while muon-catalyzed fusion is a recognized phenomenon, the likelihood of a muon causing significant localized heating or a chain reaction in a lithium battery is extremely low. The conversation references the energy output of high-energy muons and the established failure modes of lithium batteries, such as dendrite formation, which are more plausible causes of battery failure.
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The reaction your propose looks like fusion to me. At room temperature, I don't think that the Li and H nucleons are hot enough and confined long enough for a fusion reaction to occur. What makes you think that the presence of a muon would trigger such a reaction? Do you have a theory or are you just speculating?x_engineer said:Just wondering what would happen if a muon entered the LiH dense environment of a lithium battery. Could it explain the instances of spontaneous combustion of the battery in electric vehicles?
Li + H => He
And even if it possibly did it would not be enough to start a chain reaction of generate much heat. I think if one pumped the highest energy muon beam made today into a battery it would not even heat up. Given the world's strongest muon beam here;kuruman said:The reaction your propose looks like fusion to me. At room temperature, I don't think that the Li and H nucleons are hot enough and confined long enough for a fusion reaction to occur. What makes you think that the presence of a muon would trigger such a reaction? Do you have a theory or are you just speculating?
red annotation is mine. Unitsbob012345 said:You get 4108 muons per second @60Mev which dumps about 6 milliJoules of energy into your battery per second One high energy muon at 10 Gev would be a few nanoJoules.
That is exactly the question i was asking.bob012345 said:But the original question was if an event could theoretically trigger a reaction or cascade of events that might lead to failure. It would be wrong to say absolutely not but I think it is highly unlikely.
Well, that is an interesting question but still unlikely as there would probably not be enough muons or D isotopes around to continue the reactions. I am familiar with Muon Catalyzed Fusion. There was an interesting Scientific American article about that in the July 1987 issue by Rafelski and Jones which I have kept on my coffee table ever since. Strangely and perhaps unfortunately, the article was called Cold Nuclear Fusion but it actually worked. That process used muons with Deuterium and Tritium at room temperature whereby the muon replaced an electron in a DT molecule bringing the nuclei closer together. What path would you suggest in this case?x_engineer said:That is exactly the question i was asking.
There is a phenomenon called "muon catalyzed fusion". If a muon wandered into LiH at the density of the electrode surface of a charging battery, could it cause enough localized heating to cause a short that can then result in an explosion/fire driven by the chemical energy stored in the battery?
Niket Patwardhan
In the cold fusion literature there was an article on an experiment by the USNavy that showed pitting of an electrode presumably caused by DD fusion. The current theory of why lithium batteries ignite during charging is the formation of a metal microspike that shorts the electrodes. If a muon wanders into LiH at solid density it is practically guaranteed to cause at least one fusion as the Coulomb barrier is eliminated; I guess the question boils down to whether it will remain local enough to cause a micromelt incident due to additional fusions within the small volume.bob012345 said:Well, that is an interesting question but still unlikely as there would probably not be enough muons or D isotopes around to continue the reactions. I am familiar with Muon Catalyzed Fusion. There was an interesting Scientific American article about that in the July 1987 issue by Rafelski and Jones which I have kept on my coffee table ever since. Strangely and perhaps unfortunately, the article was called Cold Nuclear Fusion but it actually worked. That process used muons with Deuterium and Tritium at room temperature whereby the muon replaced an electron in a DT molecule bringing the nuclei closer together. What path would you suggest in this case?
Did you find that in the Science Fiction section?x_engineer said:In the cold fusion literature
Well, the forum rules do specifically prohibit discussion of cold fusion, and you did promise to respect those rules when you signed up, so….x_engineer said:Oops. Looks like I stepped on touchy doodoo by saying the words "cold fusion".
Using known crackpottery (prohibited by forum rules) to support your own personal theory (also prohibited by forum rules) gets people cross, yes.x_engineer said:looks like I stepped on touchy doodoo