A question about the significance of 3

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the significance of the number 3 in various contexts within physics, including dimensions, generations of quarks, and generations of leptons. Participants explore whether there are known connections or examples of sets of three in physics, while also touching on broader numerical significance.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note the presence of three large dimensions, three generations of quarks, and three generations of leptons, questioning the significance of this number.
  • One participant suggests that the significance of numbers can be arbitrary and mentions the fundamental group of the standard model as potentially supporting various interpretations of numbers.
  • Another participant humorously references the number 42, indicating a cultural significance rather than a scientific one.
  • There is a critique of numerology in the context of the discussion about the number 3, with some participants expressing skepticism about its relevance.
  • One participant argues that the similarity in the number of generations for quarks and leptons is significant for anomaly cancellation in quantum field theory, suggesting a deeper connection beyond mere numerology.
  • The conversation shifts to a debate about metaphors used in the discussion, which some participants feel detracts from the original topic.
  • A later reply emphasizes the need for specificity in questions about numbers in physics to foster more meaningful discussions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of skepticism and curiosity regarding the significance of the number 3, with some viewing it as numerological while others see potential scientific relevance. The discussion remains unresolved, with competing views on the importance of the number.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about the relevance of numbers in physics and the potential for arbitrary connections, which are not fully explored or resolved.

Tanelorn
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Tanelorn said:
A very quick question about the significance of 3:
So we have 3 large dimensions.
And we have 3 generations of quarks.
And we have 3 generations of Leptons.

Is there any known significance or reason or connection to the number 3?
Are there any other examples of sets of 3 in Physics?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Model_(mathematical_formulation)#/media/File:Standard_Model_of_Elementary_Particles.svg
A very quick answer about the significance of ##2##:
We have a quadratic electromagnetic force which is all around.
Newtons quadratic gravitation is a pretty good model for everyday experiences.
The normal distribution that is applicable almost everywhere in nature goes with ##e^{-t^2}##.
Our entire logic (true / false), ethics (good / bad), spirituality (ying / yang), most of biological processes (reproduction, cell division), computer arithmetic (0 / 1) and so on are all based on two.
Our functions which we use to describe the universe are subsets of a product space ##X \times Y##.
There is matter and antimatter, spin up and down, Pauli's exclusion principle - all ##2##.

Summary: You could do this for a lot of numbers: ##0\; , \;1\; , \;\pi\; , \;e ## or whatever. This doesn't carry any insights and IMO is pure esoteric. You mentioned the standard model, but it's fundamental group so far is ##U(1) \times SU(2) \times SU(3)##, so it's ##(1,2,3)## or ##(1,3,8)## depending on how you want to look at it. To pick the three from it is a bit randomly.
 
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Don't forget the all important number 42 .
:smile:
 
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Arghhh here comes Numerology again.
 
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sophiecentaur said:
Arghhh here comes Numerology again.
Exactly. @Tanelorn, you're pissing up a rope on this one.
 
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phinds said:
@Tanelorn, you're pissing up a rope on this one.
That mixes at least two separate metaphors!
 
marcusl said:
That mixes at least two separate metaphors!
I don't think so. It's an old military saying. Maybe if it had been 3 ropes :smile:
 
Tanelorn said:
And we have 3 generations of quarks.
And we have 3 generations of Leptons.
Whereas looking at another arbitrary number 3 is numerology, it is significant that these two numbers are the same (not 3 necessarily) for anomaly cancellation in QFT so I would even say that the OP is just a list of two numbers (not three) that happen to be the same.
 
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phinds said:
It's an old military saying.
That doesn't invalidate my observation...
 
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marcusl said:
That doesn't invalidate my observation...
I still disagree. Explain yourself, please.
 
  • #11
Ok :oldsmile:
Just because you heard it in the military doesn't mean that someone (in the military) didn't combine pissing into the wind with pushing on a rope.
 
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  • #12
marcusl said:
Ok :oldsmile:
Just because you heard it in the military doesn't mean that someone (in the military) didn't combine pissing into the wind with pushing on a rope.
Sounds like you are missing the point completely. This has nothing to do with pushing. Think what happens if you stand under a rope and piss up it.
 
  • #13
Ok, we've gotten off topic here. (We won't discuss your ability to stand and piss upwards onto a rope above you :o))
 
  • #14
Although it does seem like the most useful part of the thread
 
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Tanelorn said:
Are there any other examples of sets of 3 in Physics?

This is so broad that it falls into numerology. If you have a specific question about the relationship between a certain number and a specific concept in physics then feel free to ask, but please try to keep the focus narrow if you want to attract high quality answers.

It appears this thread is done.

Thread locked.
 

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