Additional Emperical Observations of the Sachs-Wolfe Effect?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the Sachs-Wolfe Effect (SWE) and its observations beyond the Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB). Participants explore whether the SWE can be detected in other contexts, such as through gravitational influences on starlight from nearby galaxies.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions if the CMB is the only observable instance of the Sachs-Wolfe Effect, suggesting that it might also be detectable with nearby gravitational bodies affecting distant starlight.
  • Another participant explains that the SWE is caused by electromagnetic radiation being perturbed through density variations, linking it to gravitational redshift and blue-shift.
  • A later reply clarifies that while the SWE can result in both redshift and blueshift, the conditions under which each occurs depend on the gravitational field's strength and changes over time.
  • One participant points out the redshift observed in the Hubble deep field, implying it is a different phenomenon from the SWE, specifically attributing it to the expansion of the universe.
  • Another participant references a paper discussing the Integrated Sachs-Wolfe (ISW) effect, indicating correlations between the CMB and evolving gravitational potentials, suggesting empirical observations have been made.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of the Sachs-Wolfe Effect outside the CMB, with some asserting its presence in other contexts while others emphasize the distinct nature of redshift observed in the Hubble deep field. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the broader implications of the SWE.

Contextual Notes

Some participants reference specific mechanisms and empirical observations but do not reach a consensus on the broader applicability of the Sachs-Wolfe Effect outside the CMB. There are also assumptions about the gravitational field's behavior that are not fully explored.

falcon32
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I learned about the Sachs-Wolfe Effect when I was discussing the CMB, since it is a major artifact of it.
I do have one very basic question: Is the CMB the only place we observe the effect, or do we see it every day in other places?

I suppose the way to look for it would be to try to place a massive, closer gravitational body (some galaxy) in between a distance source of starlight in question. This might be accomplished by measurements half a year apart, similar to triangulation for near stars, so that the nearer galaxy moves across the background with respect to the more distant starlight.

I know research like this must have been done, but I don't have access (sadly) to a scientific journal yet, so I can only find references to the CMB when I do internet searches for the SWE.

Thanks, I very much appreciate your help!
 
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Bobbywhy said:
The Sachs-Wolfe Effect is caused when EM radiation is perturbed while passing through density variations. It is actually the same mechanism that causes gravitational redshift (or blue-shift). Here are some suggested readings that explain the process:

Thanks for the links; I actually do understand why the effect exists, and its great that we've observed light blueshifted by Earth's gravitational potential well, but that wasn't the question.

If you check this link out here http://cmbcorrelations.pbworks.com/w/page/4563978/The late-time integrated Sachs Wolfe effect

which explains the effect on a large scale, you'll see that eventually light can be either red or blueshifted, depending. Generally I've seen the blue-shifting explained under terms of a changing (by comparison to an earlier time, weaker) gravitational field as "something dark" affects the gravitational well. A photon entering a well will have energy added to it and therefore blueshift. But since the well has been "weakened" (we're dealing with the expansion of the universe, dark matter, dark energy), it does not take as much energy to "fight against" the potential well on its way out, and therefore, ΔE = E_after - E_before > 0. So photons are blueshifted.
Sometimes. Othertimes, they are redshifted. I've been taught that we observe both redshift and blueshift in the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation. My original question was: do we observe this grand-scale red/blue shift anywhere else in the Universe, or just in the CMBR? Also, if you could explain the mechanism by which light is redshifted, specifically in the CMBR context, (do we assume the gravitational well grew stronger?) I would appreciate it.

Again many thanks.
 
Er, like the redshift of all the galaxies in the Hubble deep field. What else do you need? You really need to read some modern papers instead of science mythology.
 
Chronos said:
Er, like the redshift of all the galaxies in the Hubble deep field. What else do you need? You really need to read some modern papers instead of science mythology.

HDF is redshifted because of the expansion of the Universe, right? Thats why we can use it to see what galaxies look like billions of years ago. Its not ISWE redshift...
 
Based on CMB maps from the 2013 Planck Mission data release, this paper presents the detection of the ISW effect, i.e., the correlation between the CMB and large-scale evolving gravitational potentials. The significance of detection ranges from 2 to 4 sigma, depending on which method is used.
http://arxiv.org/abs/1303.5079
 
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