An "Untranslatable" Word?

[Hornbein]

I don't know that any word is truly untranslatable, but I'd say the more words it takes to explain the meanings of a foreign word is a measure of translatability. So how about the common Indonesian word biji. It is usually translated as "seeds", but actually it means "a collection of things that are pretty much the same" like seeds of the same variety. So the buttons on your shirt are biji. Screws are the hardware store are biji. But beware, there is also buah. That means "fruit" and also can mean "a collection of things that are pretty much the same." It depends one whether the things remind one more of seeds or of fruit, I guess. Are hen's eggs biji or buah or can they be either? I'll have to ask someone.

There is also a nice complex near here called Biji World. That's different, it's just a single thing. I guess it is metaphorically considered to be a seed that will grow in influence. Like other Asian languages, there is usually no distinction between singular and plural forms.

Then there is bunga, which usually means "blossom" but also can mean "interest on a loan or deposit."

 

[sbrothy]

For some reason I always hear that the Danish word "hygge" (coziness), "hyggeligt" (cozy) is a unique Danish word and concept, because obviously the 5-6 millions inhabitants of Denmark are the only people who came up with having a nice time with family and friends?!

I've never understood this!

EDIT: It's a little the commandment: "Honor thy parents!" Because no exasperated parent could possibly have thought of that of themselves!

 

[sevensages]

Deja Vu

 

[OmCheeto]

I once asked a couple of my Russian buddies what 'stremnaya / стрёмная' meant and they discussed the meaning for 5 minutes before they gave me their answer. That was around 20 years ago so I don't remember what they said.

This of course all started with images of a road in China carved into a cliff, which people claimed was in Bolivia, and called 'Stremnaya Road'. 'Stremnaya' being merely an adjective with translates roughly to: 'to be filled with dread'.
[ ref1] [ref 2]

 

[Hill]

I once asked a couple of my Russian buddies what 'stremnaya / стрёмная' meant and they discussed the meaning for 5 minutes before they gave me their answer. That was around 20 years ago so I don't remember what they said.

This of course all started with images of a road in China carved into a cliff, which people claimed was in Bolivia, and called 'Stremnaya Road'. 'Stremnaya' being merely an adjective with translates roughly to: 'to be filled with dread'.
[ ref1] [ref 2]

Russian is my mother's tongue and I also don't know what that word means. It certainly is not or was not an official word of Russian language back then. Perhaps, some regional dialect.

 

[Janus]

The word "Sisu" in Finnish comes to mind. One attempt that tries to define it goes like this " Extraordinary determination, courage and resoluteness in the face of extreme adversity. An action mindset which enables individuals to see beyond their present limitations and into what might be. Taking action against the odds and reaching beyond observed capacities." On the other hand, sometimes it just means "Bullheaded stubbornness".

 

[DaveC426913]

There is also a nice complex near here called Biji World. That's different, it's just a single thing.

Is it? Or are you taking it too literally?

If I go to Spatula World, that doesn't mean there is one thing that is a spatula; it means it is a world of all things spatula.

So Biji World would be a world full of things that are all the same. It might be a Bulk Store, where they sell bulk products in barrels. Buttons: $4/lb. Staples: $8/lb. Napkins: $5/lb

 

[DaveC426913]

Just heard this one on the radio this morning.

Merriam-Webster* recognizes the only non-Earth language word: grok. (It's Martian)

It's also a word that translates poorly to Earth languages.

* _{I think}

 

[sbrothy]

Deja Vu

"Deja vu" = "seen again". I seem to remember from KSR's Mars Trilogy that there's also:
"Jamais Vu" = "never seen" (the opposite of Deja vu) and
"Presque vu" = which is the feeling that you're about to get an epiphany but then the feeling disappears abruptly.

Deja vu is a little like sleep paralysis, something we almost all experience during our lives, but the other two are, I think, symptoms of possible mental illnesses like, for instance, bipolarity.

But don't take my word for it.

EDIT: With this: "Deja vu is a little like sleep paralysis", I mean quantitatively. Not qualitatively.

 

[pinball1970]

Deja vu is a little like sleep paralysis, something we almost all experience during our lives, but the other two are, I think, symptoms of possible mental illnesses like, for instance, bipolarity.

Up voting the first part but not this.
Sleep paralysis is when your brain wakes but your body does not. It is very distressing because you cannot move or breathe properly.

Bipolar, schizophrenia, depression, not connected.

 

[sbrothy]

Not to sleep paralysis, no. I just meant it's a thing most of us experience once or more during a lifetime, as with deja vu. The other 2 are much more rare.

EDIT: And I agree, sleep paralysis is really really uncomfortable. First time I thought I had had a brain aneurism.

EDIT2: If you can trust Wiki there seems to be a connection with mental illness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamais_vu

EDIT3: This, for instance, does not look fun: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalization-derealization_disorder

 

[sbrothy]

Seems to perhaps be a book based on a paper. Anyway, it's behind a paywall:

The Déjà Vu Experience

 

[sbrothy]

Up voting the first part but not this.
Sleep paralysis is when your brain wakes but your body does not. It is very distressing because you cannot move or breathe properly.

Bipolar, schizophrenia, depression, not connected.

I was perfectly able to breathe but I couldn't move. I could also feel my right arm hammering back and forth even though I could see it was lying still. So I concluded: "Brain anuerism! I'm alone! How am I going to get my phone and call emergency?".

20 seconds later I jolted awake. I've had anxiety attacks that was more fun.

EDIT: To make matters worse I'd never heard of sleep paralysis. If you have kids do them a favor and tell them about it!

 

[BillTre]

OK since the scenarios are getting a bit non-standard, instead of translating froom randomor made up languages to English, what about translating between jargon and non-jargon?
Many science words are international in that they are so similar in different languages (so said my Russian teacher).
I believe there are many words used in scientific discussions that putting them into English or some other language would be very difficult just because of the obscurity of the subjects. I am sure that there are many in physics and math since so many have said you have to understand major aspects of some field first to understand some concept.

Here are a few simple and common ones from biology:

• gastrulation
• endosymbiot
• archaea
• taxon

Some concepts in biology lack an agreed upon definition, possibly making things more difficult:

• species
• life

 

[martinbn]

I once asked a couple of my Russian buddies what 'stremnaya / стрёмная' meant and they discussed the meaning for 5 minutes before they gave me their answer. That was around 20 years ago so I don't remember what they said.

This of course all started with images of a road in China carved into a cliff, which people claimed was in Bolivia, and called 'Stremnaya Road'. 'Stremnaya' being merely an adjective with translates roughly to: 'to be filled with dread'.
[ ref1] [ref 2]

My language has a word стръмна, which means steep. So all this makes sense.

 

[Hornbein]

Is it? Or are you taking it too literally?

If I go to Spatula World, that doesn't mean there is one thing that is a spatula; it means it is a world of all things spatula.

So Biji World would be a world full of things that are all the same. It might be a Bulk Store, where they sell bulk products in barrels. Buttons: $4/lb. Staples: $8/lb. Napkins: $5/lb

Biji World is a combination restaurant, art gallery, Apple store, and BMW motorcycle dealership.

 

[sbrothy]

My language has a word стръмна, which means steep. So all this makes sense.

"stremn(j)a"? The little b is a pressure indicator no? (Sorry, I can't copy/paste on this computer). I had Russian in school but were so truant that I didn't even learn the Cyrillic alphabet....

 

[martinbn]

"stremn(j)a"? The little b is a pressure indicator no? (Sorry, I can't copy/paste on this computer). I had Russian in school but were so truant that I didn't even learn the Cyrillic alphabet....

If by little b you mean the "ъ", then it represents the schwa /ə/ sound.

 

[Hill]

If by little b you mean the "ъ", then it represents the schwa /ə/ sound.

Not in Russian though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_sign:

In Modern Russian, the letter "ъ" is called the hard sign (твёрдый знак / tvjordyj znak). It has no phonetic value of its own and is purely an orthographic device or it doesn't make a sound. Its function is to separate a number of prefixes ending in consonants from subsequent morphemes that begin with iotated vowels.

 

[martinbn]

Not in Russian though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_sign:

It was in the context of the word I wrote, which wasn't in Russian.

 

[Hill]

It was in the context of the word I wrote, which wasn't in Russian.

I understand. I've mentioned Russian because @sbrothy did so.

 

[martinbn]

I understand. I've mentioned Russian because @sbrothy did so.

I see, I think in Russian it is very rare.

 

[pinball1970]

I was perfectly able to breathe but I couldn't move.

Breathing is involuntary which is why we can breathe when we are asleep. The suffocation arises because we are paralysed and cannot take control of our breathing.
It is a horrible feeling, I suffered from being a small boy.
Historically demons sat on your chest was one explanation, not nice.

Which brings me to a strange word my ex (Hungarian) used to say. idegesség - she insisted was "walked on my grave."

Apparently it just means, nervous.

We (English) have "miasma" - A sense of dread, bad atmosphere. Historically more aligned with disease, "bad air"

 

[OmCheeto]

My language has a word стръмна, which means steep. So all this makes sense.

According to google translate, it's Bulgarian.
Borek and I have a mutual Facebook friend living in Bulgaria and I thought it was interesting that they use the Cyrillic script, so I researched it, and found out that it originated in Bulgaria, and was named after some guy named Cyril.

wiki;
Etymology
Since the script was conceived and popularised by the followers of Cyril and Methodius in Bulgaria, rather than by Cyril and Methodius themselves, its name denotes homage rather than authorship.

[ ref ]

I still think it's interesting that both my Russian buddies(husband and wife) knew the 'Stremnaya' version. Though I should mention that one of those two is from Armenia and seems somewhat perturbed that I always refer to him as Russian. He did get his Phd from Moscow U, which is where he met his future wife, who was from a small town on the Volga named Tutayev.

 

[martinbn]

According to google translate, it's Bulgarian.
Borek and I have a mutual Facebook friend living in Bulgaria and I thought it was interesting that they use the Cyrillic script, so I researched it, and found out that it originated in Bulgaria, and was named after some guy named Cyril.

Yes, that's the history I was taught in school.

[ ref ]

I still think it's interesting that both my Russian buddies(husband and wife) knew the 'Stremnaya' version. Though I should mention that one of those two is from Armenia and seems somewhat perturbed that I always refer to him as Russian. He did get his Phd from Moscow U, which is where he met his future wife, who was from a small town on the Volga named Tutayev.

This reminds me of Kasparov. Jewish father, armenian mother, born in Aserbaijan, grew up in Russia.

 

[sbrothy]

Not in Russian though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_sign:

That's what I meant. But I guess Russian (or "Slavic"?) has many dialects.

 

[sbrothy]

Breathing is involuntary which is why we can breathe when we are asleep. The suffocation arises because we are paralysed and cannot take control of our breathing.
It is a horrible feeling, I suffered from being a small boy.
Historically demons sat on your chest was one explanation, not nice.

View attachment 369530

Which beings me to a strange word my ex (Hungarian) used to say. idegesség - she insisted was "walked on my grave."

Apparently it just means, nervous.

We (English) have "miasma" - A sense of dread, bad atmosphere. Historically more aligned with disease, "bad air"

In Danish the word for nightmare is "mareridt". Literally: "ridden by by a mare", where a mare is some sort of female demon thingy. I'm sure there are a lot of associations to wet dreams and other middle-agy no-gos.

EDIT:

Very close to what you said:


"Mareridt kommer af at blive redet af en mare, som er et overnaturligt væsen, der ifølge legenden sidder på den sovendes bryst. Etymologisk er ordet beslægtet med mær<a href="https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mareridt#cite_note-4"><span><span>[</span>4<span>]</span></span></a>. Ordet mar eller mare er et fællesgermansk ord, der går igen i svensk (mardröm), i norsk (mareritt), i fransk (cauchemar) og i engelsk (nightmare). Ordet mare kendes fra den islandske Ynglinga saga fra det 13. århundrede, men forestillingen om mareridt menes at være betydeligt ældre. En mare er identisk med de latinske fabelvæsner succubus og incubus. Mareridt kan omhandle virkeligheden."

Google translate:

"Nightmares come from being ridden by a mare, which is a supernatural creature that, according to legend, sits on the sleeper's chest. Etymologically, the word is related to maiden. The word mar or mare is a common Germanic word that recurs in Swedish (mardröm), in Norwegian (mareritt), in French (cauchemar) and in English (nightmare). The word mare is known from the 13th-century Icelandic Ynglinga saga, but the notion of nightmares is believed to be considerably older. A mare is identical to the Latin mythical creatures succubus and incubus. Nightmares can be about reality."


EDIT2: Oops, forgot: source is Danish Wiki and Google Translate.

 

[sbrothy]

In Danish the word for nightmare is "mareridt". Literally: "ridden by by a mare", where a mare is some sort of female demon thingy. I'm sure there are a lot of associations to wet dreams and other middle-agy no-gos.

EDIT:

Very close to what you said:


"Mareridt kommer af at blive redet af en mare, som er et overnaturligt væsen, der ifølge legenden sidder på den sovendes bryst. Etymologisk er ordet beslægtet med mær<a href="https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mareridt#cite_note-4"><span><span>[</span>4<span>]</span></span></a>. Ordet mar eller mare er et fællesgermansk ord, der går igen i svensk (mardröm), i norsk (mareritt), i fransk (cauchemar) og i engelsk (nightmare). Ordet mare kendes fra den islandske Ynglinga saga fra det 13. århundrede, men forestillingen om mareridt menes at være betydeligt ældre. En mare er identisk med de latinske fabelvæsner succubus og incubus. Mareridt kan omhandle virkeligheden."

Google translate:

"Nightmares come from being ridden by a mare, which is a supernatural creature that, according to legend, sits on the sleeper's chest. Etymologically, the word is related to maiden. The word mar or mare is a common Germanic word that recurs in Swedish (mardröm), in Norwegian (mareritt), in French (cauchemar) and in English (nightmare). The word mare is known from the 13th-century Icelandic Ynglinga saga, but the notion of nightmares is believed to be considerably older. A mare is identical to the Latin mythical creatures succubus and incubus. Nightmares can be about reality."

Sorry for my bad habit of editing my posts. It's difficult "liking" a post and then seeing it changed a second later.

 

[sbrothy]

Breathing is involuntary which is why we can breathe when we are asleep. The suffocation arises because we are paralysed and cannot take control of our breathing.
It is a horrible feeling, I suffered from being a small boy.
Historically demons sat on your chest was one explanation, not nice.

View attachment 369530

Which brings me to a strange word my ex (Hungarian) used to say. idegesség - she insisted was "walked on my grave."

Apparently it just means, nervous.

We (English) have "miasma" - A sense of dread, bad atmosphere. Historically more aligned with disease, "bad air"

We have that idiom too. If you feel a pressure or temperature drop, a sudden memory of a dead person or similar, you say "someone walked over my grave" (or someone elses). It really doesn't make much sense walking over a living person's grave.

 

[martinbn]

That's what I meant. But I guess Russian (or "Slavic"?) has many dialects.

Russia is very big, Russian will have many accents and dialects.