Ancient Cultures: Egyptian, Sumerian & Indian

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the existence of high cultures during the latest Ice Age, particularly focusing on whether such cultures would have settled along coastal areas. Participants explore the implications of archaeological findings and historical flooding events on the understanding of ancient civilizations, specifically Egyptian, Sumerian, and Indian cultures.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that if high cultures existed during the latest Ice Age, they would likely have settled along coastal lines, proposing that older human settlements may be submerged underwater.
  • Another participant references the Black Sea flooding theory, discussing how significant flooding events could have influenced human settlement patterns and possibly contributed to mythologies like Noah's flood.
  • A participant expresses skepticism about the term "high culture," suggesting it implies a ruling class and questioning the availability of evidence for such a system during the Ice Age. They propose that technological development is linked to population density and food availability, which may not have been present at that time.
  • Another participant acknowledges the presence of people in what is now the southern North Sea, suggesting that while they may not have constituted a "high culture," their existence in a fertile plain would have been impacted by rising sea levels.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definition and evidence of "high culture" during the Ice Age, with some supporting the idea of coastal settlements and others questioning the existence of a ruling class or advanced societal structures. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the challenges in finding evidence for ancient cultures, particularly regarding the definitions of "high culture" and the impact of environmental changes on human settlements.

Max Faust
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The oldest cultures acknowledged are Egyptian, Sumerian and Indian.

What strikes me as perhaps a bit of a pertinent question to ask, though, is this: If there existed any form of high-culture during the latest Ice Age, wouldn't they be likely to settle along coastal lines of the time?

Whereas certain structures in Turkey and Palestine are considered to be 10-12,000 years old, there ought to be even older remnants of human settlements underneath some 100+ meters of sea water in such places as people would be likely to want to inhabit at the time.

Any thoughts on this?
 
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In 1997, William Ryan and Walter Pitman published evidence that a massive flooding of the Black Sea occurred about 5600 BC through the Bosporus, following this scenario. Before that date, glacial meltwater had turned the Black and Caspian Seas into vast freshwater lakes which were draining into the Aegean Sea. As glaciers retreated, some of the rivers emptying into the Black Sea declined in volume and changed course to drain into the North Sea. The levels of the lakes dropped through evaporation, while changes in worldwide hydrology caused sea level to rise. The rising Mediterranean finally spilled over a rocky sill at the Bosporus. The event flooded 155,000 km2 (60,000 sq mi) of land and significantly expanded the Black Sea shoreline to the north and west.
Allegedly, this is one possible source for the story of Noah's flood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_theory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_theory#Evidence_from_archaeology

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2009/02/19/black-sea-flood.html

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/ctl/clihis10k.html

http://www.pbs.org/saf/1207/features/noah.htm


Caspian Sea flooding - http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2003AM/finalprogram/abstract_63243.htm
 
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yes that would be a place to find evidence. I have some doubts about the term "high culture" though, guessing that would mean a ruling class that controls trade, rather than a technological culture, but that's just my opinion. Evidence for a class system would be hard to find. Maybe in widely dispersed flint points of the same type, fine textiles, religious figurines, or realistic art (?). It's hard to imagine a high culture scenario other than the one we have. A lot of technological development is inherent w/ population density & food availability, which was unavailable during the ice age, but most tribal groups have a leader, and a large, widely dispersed group would probably have communication between local leaders, making councils to decide topics relevant to the whole. I'd call that a high culture, but evidence could be tenuous.
 
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Max Faust said:
If there existed any form of high-culture during the latest Ice Age, wouldn't they be likely to settle along coastal lines of the time?
Not sure they were high culture but there were lots of people living in what is now the southern North sea between England/Denmark/Holland

For people living in this fertile plain having to run for the hills (ie current land) when the sea came in must have been a real annoyance.
 

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