Angular momentum and spin unit

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of spin as a type of intrinsic angular momentum, particularly focusing on the units associated with electron spin and the interpretation of its magnitude and direction in both classical and quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the spin of an electron is given by (1/2)ħ, questioning the unit of J.s as not being appropriate for angular momentum.
  • Others clarify that J.s is indeed the unit of angular momentum, equating it to kg·m²/s, and also note its role as the unit of action in both classical and quantum mechanics.
  • A participant challenges the initial claim about electron spin, stating that the spin quantum number is s=1/2, leading to a spin angular momentum magnitude of √(s(s+1))ħ = (√3/2)ħ.
  • Further elaboration indicates that the electron's spin angular momentum has a magnitude of (√3/2)ħ, with components of ±(1/2)ħ in any direction.
  • Questions arise regarding whether spin can be considered a 3-D vector, with some participants suggesting that while classical spin is a vector along an axis, quantum mechanics does not define a specific axis of rotation.
  • It is discussed that while the magnitude of spin can be defined, measurements yield components along a chosen axis, leading to the conclusion that the overall vector cannot be directly measured.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of electron spin, its measurement, and the appropriateness of units used. There is no consensus on the nature of spin as a vector or the implications of its measurement in quantum mechanics.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding the measurement of spin, particularly regarding the distinction between measuring the magnitude of spin and its components along specific axes. There are unresolved aspects concerning the interpretation of spin in classical versus quantum contexts.

Edge5
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I know that spin is a type of intrinsic angular momentum.

For electron spin is (1/2)ħ . But unit of (1/2)ħ is J.s, which is not the unit of angular momentum. Can you please explain this discrepancy?
 
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Edge5 said:
I know that spin is a type of intrinsic angular momentum.

For electron spin is (1/2)ħ . But unit of (1/2)ħ is J.s, which is not the unit of angular momentum. Can you please explain this discrepancy?

Actually, that is the unit of angular momentum, ##J\cdot s =\frac{kg\cdot m^2}{s}##. It's also the unit of action in classical mechanics.
 
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hilbert2 said:
Actually, that is the unit of angular momentum, ##J\cdot s =\frac{kg\cdot m^2}{s}##. It's also the unit of action in classical mechanics.
... and in quantum mechanics.
 
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Edge5 said:
For electron spin is (1/2)ħ
That is not correct. The spin quantum number is ##s=1/2##, which means that the spin angular momentum is ##\sqrt{s(s+1)} \hbar = \frac{\sqrt{3}}{2} \hbar##.
 
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More explicitly, angular momentum is a vector quantity. An electron's spin angular momentum has magnitude ##\frac {\sqrt 3} 2 \hbar## as DrClaude noted. Its component in any direction is ##\pm \frac 1 2 \hbar##.
 
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jtbell said:
More explicitly, angular momentum is a vector quantity. An electron's spin angular momentum has magnitude ##\frac {\sqrt 3} 2 \hbar## as DrClaude noted. Its component in any direction is ##\pm \frac 1 2 \hbar##.
Do you mean the net magnitude of total spin vector is ##\frac {\sqrt 3} 2 \hbar## ? Do we consider spin as a 3-D vector?

I mean if spin is a vector like A(x hat) + B(y hat) + C(z hat).
Is ##\frac {\sqrt 3} 2 \hbar## = sqrt( A^2 +B^2 +C^2)
 
Edge5 said:
Do we consider spin as a 3-D vector?
Classically, spin angular momentum is a vector whose direction is along the object's axis of rotation:

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/amom.html#am

In QM, there's no definite axis of rotation, but we can still say that spin angular momentum has a definite magnitude (##\frac {\sqrt 3} 2 \hbar## for an electron), and certain allowable values for its component along any measurement axis (##\pm \frac 1 2 \hbar## for an electron) which we traditionally call the "z-direction" even though it could just as well be the x-direction or the y-direction or any other direction.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/spin.html
 
jtbell said:
Classically, spin angular momentum is a vector whose direction is along the object's axis of rotation:

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/amom.html#am

In QM, there's no definite axis of rotation, but we can still say that spin angular momentum has a definite magnitude (##\frac {\sqrt 3} 2 \hbar## for an electron), and certain allowable values for its component along any measurement axis (##\pm \frac 1 2 \hbar## for an electron) which we traditionally call the "z-direction" even though it could just as well be the x-direction or the y-direction or any other direction.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/spin.html


So does that mean we can't measure ##\frac {\sqrt 3} 2 \hbar## (since it involves all direction of vectors) but we can measure it only in one direction which gives us a result of ##\pm \frac 1 2 \hbar## ?
 
Edge5 said:
So does that mean we can't measure ##\frac {\sqrt 3} 2 \hbar## (since it involves all direction of vectors) but we can measure it only in one direction which gives us a result of ##\pm \frac 1 2 \hbar## ?
We cannot measure ##\vec{S}##, but we can measure ##|\vec{S}|^2##, the square of its magnitude, and then take the square root to get the magnitude. There's an easy visualization: imagine the set of vectors with their base at the center of the Earth and their tip on the Arctic circle. All of these vectors have the same squared magnitude and the same ##z## component, but the other two components and the overall direction are not determined.
 

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