Appending a number to itself n times and finding modulo m

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the problem of appending a number (p) to itself n times and finding the resulting number modulo m. Participants explore the mathematical patterns and potential formulas related to this operation, particularly when n can be as large as 10^10. The conversation includes both theoretical reasoning and specific examples.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the modulo value of the appended number starts repeating after certain values of n, leading to the observation of patterns in the results.
  • One participant proposes a formula for the modulo operation based on the number of digits in p and the properties of geometric series.
  • Another participant discusses the need to find the modular inverse when t-1 and m are relatively co-prime, and suggests that alternative methods may be needed when they are not.
  • There is a clarification regarding edge cases, specifically when t=1 and t=0, which affect the nature of the series formed.
  • Participants provide specific examples and calculations to illustrate their points, including the use of the Euclidean algorithm for finding modular inverses.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints and methods for approaching the problem, with no consensus reached on a single solution or formula. The discussion remains open-ended with multiple competing ideas and approaches presented.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the properties of numbers p and m, as well as the assumptions regarding their relationships. The discussion also highlights the complexity introduced by large values of n and the potential for different outcomes based on specific conditions.

Acquirer
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A number(p) is given. now p is appended to itself n times(n can be
as large as 10^10). I need to find the number thus formed modulo m.
Let the number be 12 and n be 4.
so number thus formed is 12121212. let us find this number modulo 11
then the ans is 4.

On observing the pattern it is clear that the modulo value starts repeating for some value of n.
let p=12 and m=7,
for n=1, mod= 5
for n=2,mod= 1
for n=3,mod=0
for n=4 onwards the same mod i.e. 5,1,0 starts repeating.but the problem is for many values of p and m the repitition starts after a large value of n thus making it difficult to calculate.
So, there should be an easier method for this maybe some more reliable pattern or formula. Pls help.
 
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Acquirer said:
A number(p) is given. now p is appended to itself n times(n can be
as large as 10^10). I need to find the number thus formed modulo m.
Let the number be 12 and n be 4.
so number thus formed is 12121212. let us find this number modulo 11
then the ans is 4.

On observing the pattern it is clear that the modulo value starts repeating for some value of n.
let p=12 and m=7,
for n=1, mod= 5
for n=2,mod= 1
for n=3,mod=0
for n=4 onwards the same mod i.e. 5,1,0 starts repeating.but the problem is for many values of p and m the repitition starts after a large value of n thus making it difficult to calculate.
So, there should be an easier method for this maybe some more reliable pattern or formula. Pls help.

Hi Acquirer! Welcome to MHB! ;)

Let $p=12$ and $m=7$.
Let $P_n$ be the number with $p$ appended $n$ times to itself.

Then $P_1 = p = 12$ and:
$$P_2 \equiv P_1 \cdot 100 + p \equiv (P_1 \bmod 7) \cdot (100 \bmod 7) + (p \bmod 7)
\equiv (p \bmod 7)\cdot 2 + (p \bmod 7) \equiv 3(p \bmod 7) \equiv 1 \\
P_3 \equiv P_2 \cdot 100 + p \equiv (P_2 \bmod 7) \cdot 2 + (p \bmod 7)
\equiv 3(p \bmod 7)\cdot 2 + (p \bmod 7) \equiv 7(p \bmod 7) \equiv 0
$$

We see the pattern that the modulo number seems to be of the form $k(p \bmod m) \mod m$.
This is certainly true for $n=1$ with $k_1=1$.
So let's assume that $P_n \mod m = k_n \cdot p \mod m$.
And let $d$ be the number of digits of $p$.
Then:
$$P_{n+1} \equiv P_n \cdot 10^d + p \equiv (k_n \cdot p \bmod m) (10^d \bmod m) + (p \bmod m)
\equiv (k_n(10^d \bmod m)+1)(p \bmod m)
$$

So indeed, we have (by proof of induction):
$$P_n = k_n \cdot p \mod m$$
with $k_1=1$ and $k_{n+1} = (k_n(10^d \bmod m)+1) \bmod m$. (Thinking)
 
Let $t=10^d \bmod m$, then:
$$k_{n+1} = (k_n\cdot t+1) \bmod m$$
So:
$$k_1=1,\quad k_2=t+1 \bmod m,\quad k_3=t^2+t+1 \bmod m,\quad ...$$
This is a so called geometric series. When we apply the formula to sum a geometric series, we get:
$$k_n = \frac{t^n - 1}{t-1} \bmod m$$

Let's go back to the example with $p=12, m=7, d=2, t=100 \bmod 7 = 2$.
We have:
$$P_n \bmod 7 = k_n\cdot 12 \bmod 7 = \frac{2^n - 1}{2-1} \cdot 5 \bmod 7
= 5(2^{3q+r} - 1) \bmod 7 = 5(8^q\cdot 2^r - 1) \bmod 7
= 5(1^q\cdot 2^r - 1) \bmod 7
= 5(2^r - 1) \bmod 7
$$
where $q$ and $r$ are such that $n=3q+r$ with $r=0,1,2$.

So:
$$P_n \bmod 7=0,1,5$$
when $n$ is a multiple of 3 plus respectively 0, 1, or 2.
 
To find $(t-1)^{-1} \bmod m$, we're looking for a number $x$ such that $(t-1)x \equiv 1 \pmod m$.
As an example, suppose we have $t=3$ and $m=7$.
Then
$$(3-1)\cdot 4 \bmod 7 = 1$$
So:
$$(3-1)^{-1} \equiv 4 \pmod 7$$
To find it in general, we will need to apply the Euclidean algorithm.When I wrote $n=3q+r$, I meant that we should write $n$ as a multiple of $3$ plus a remainder $r < 3$.
The number $q$ is the quotient $q=\left\lfloor{\frac n 3}\right\rfloor$.
That's because we can simplify $2^3 \equiv 8 \equiv 1 \pmod 7$.
 
But the value of x exists only when t-1 and m are relatively co-prime i.e. gcd(t-1,m)=1. However the question may ask for some values where t-1 and m are not co-prime. in that case we need to look for some other method to do the same...
 
Acquirer said:
But the value of x exists only when t-1 and m are relatively co-prime i.e. gcd(t-1,m)=1. However the question may ask for some values where t-1 and m are not co-prime. in that case we need to look for some other method to do the same...

True.

Well... let again $P_n$ be the number consisting of $n$ times $p$ appended to itself, let $d$ be the number of digits of $p$, and let $t = 10^d \bmod m$.

Then we're looking for $P_n \bmod m = \frac{t^n - 1}{t-1}\cdot p \bmod m$.
That is, the remainder $r$ when we divide by $m$.
We can write it as:
$$\frac{t^n - 1}{t-1}\cdot p = qm + r$$
That is, we divide by $m$ leaving us the quotient $q$ and the remainder $r < m$, and we're looking for that remainder $r$.
It follows that:
$$(t^n - 1)\cdot p = qm(t-1) + r(t-1)$$
So:
$$(t^n - 1)\cdot p \mod m(t-1) = r(t-1)$$
Thus:
$$P_n \bmod m = r = \frac{1}{t-1}\Big((t^n - 1)\cdot p \mod m(t-1)\Big)$$
 
Thank You very much for making the solution so clear.
Finally I will clarify two edge cases which one need to take care of.
the first is when t=1, then instead of a G.P. an A.P will be formed so tn in that case will be simply n.
the second is when t=0, then Pn mod m will be simply p mod m.
Thank you again.
 

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