Applying the Chain Rule to Derive Solutions of the Heat Equation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the chain rule to derive solutions of the heat equation, specifically examining whether the transformation $u_k \equiv u(k^2 t, kx)$ remains a solution. Participants explore the implications of this transformation and the correct application of derivatives in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion regarding the application of the chain rule, particularly whether the derivative $\frac{\partial{u}}{\partial{k^2 t}}$ is valid.
  • There is a suggestion to distinguish between different meanings of $t$ in the context of the problem to avoid ambiguity.
  • Participants discuss the need to redefine variables to clarify the relationships between $t$, $f$, and $\mathbf{x}$.
  • Some participants propose that the derivatives should be taken with respect to a new variable $\tilde{t}$ instead of $t$ to prevent mixing definitions.
  • There is a detailed examination of how to compute derivatives with respect to vector components, specifically how to handle the gradient and Laplacian in the context of the transformation.
  • One participant outlines the steps to show that $u_k$ satisfies the heat equation, leading to a conclusion that $u_k$ is also a solution, but this is met with some conditions and clarifications about notation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of agreement and confusion regarding the application of the chain rule and the definitions of variables. While some steps towards a solution are discussed, there is no consensus on the clarity of the definitions and the correctness of the derivative applications.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions about the proper definitions of variables and the implications of using different symbols for the same concepts. The discussion also highlights potential ambiguities in notation that could affect the understanding of the problem.

evinda
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Hello! (Wave)

Suppose that $u(t,x)$ is a solution of the heat equation $u_t-\Delta u=0$ in $(0,+\infty) \times \mathbb{R}^n$. I want to show that $u_k \equiv u(k^2 t, kx)$ is also a solution of the heat equation in $(0,+\infty) \times \mathbb{R}^n, \forall x \in \mathbb{R}^n$.

If we have a function $u(g,f)$ then the derivative in respect to $t$ is $\frac{\partial{u}}{\partial{g}} \frac{dg}{dt}+\frac{\partial{u}}{\partial{f}} \frac{df}{dt}$, right?But then we would get that $\frac{\partial{u_k}}{\partial{t}}=k^2 \frac{\partial{u}}{\partial{k^2 t}}$.

But does the derivative $\frac{\partial{u}}{\partial{k^2 t}}$ make sense?

Or haven't I applied correctly the chain rule? (Thinking)
 
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evinda said:
Hello! (Wave)

Suppose that $u(t,x)$ is a solution of the heat equation $u_t-\Delta u=0$ in $(0,+\infty) \times \mathbb{R}^n$. I want to show that $u_k \equiv u(k^2 t, kx)$ is also a solution of the heat equation in $(0,+\infty) \times \mathbb{R}^n, \forall x \in \mathbb{R}^n$.

If we have a function $u(g,f)$ then the derivative in respect to $t$ is $\frac{\partial{u}}{\partial{g}} \frac{dg}{dt}+\frac{\partial{u}}{\partial{f}} \frac{df}{dt}$, right?But then we would get that $\frac{\partial{u_k}}{\partial{t}}=k^2 \frac{\partial{u}}{\partial{k^2 t}}$.

But does the derivative $\frac{\partial{u}}{\partial{k^2 t}}$ make sense?

Or haven't I applied correctly the chain rule? (Thinking)

Hey evinda! (Smile)

I'm afraid $t$ has 2 different meanings in this context, which is confusing.
Let's distinguish them by replacing one of them by $\tilde t$.
Oh, and $x$ is a vector in $\mathbb R^n$, so let's denote it by $\mathbf x$, and similarly denote $g$ by $\mathbf g$ to make sure we don't forget.
Also note that $u_{\mathbf x}(t,\mathbf x) = (u_{x_1}, u_{x_2}, ..., u_{x_n}) = \nabla u(t,\mathbf x)$. (Nerd)

So we have a function $u(f,\mathbf g)$ and we want the derivative with respect to $\tilde t$ of $u(f(\tilde t), \mathbf g(\tilde t))$.
Then we get:
$$
\d u{\tilde t}=\pd uf \d f{\tilde t} + \pd u{\mathbf g} \cdot \d {\mathbf g}{\tilde t}
= \pd {}f u(f({\tilde t}), {\mathbf g}({\tilde t})) \d {}{\tilde t} f({\tilde t})
+ \pd {}{\mathbf g} u(f({\tilde t}), {\mathbf g}({\tilde t})) \cdot \d {}{\tilde t} {\mathbf g}({\tilde t})
$$
In our case we have $u(t,\mathbf x)\equiv u(f,\mathbf g)$, so $f\equiv t$, and ${\mathbf g}\equiv {\mathbf x}$.
Substituting selectively (we can because there's no ambiguity in symbols any more), we get:
$$
\d u{\tilde t}= \pd {}t u(f({\tilde t}), {\mathbf g}({\tilde t})) \d {}{\tilde t} f({\tilde t})
+ \pd {}{\mathbf x}u(f({\tilde t}), {\mathbf g}({\tilde t})) \cdot \d {}{\tilde t} {\mathbf g}({\tilde t})
= u_t(f({\tilde t}),\mathbf g({\tilde t})) f_{\tilde t}(\tilde t) + u_{\mathbf x}(f({\tilde t}),\mathbf g({\tilde t})) \cdot \mathbf g_{\tilde t}(\tilde t)
$$
(Thinking)
 
I am a little confused now... (Sweating)

Don't we have in our case $f=k^2 t$ and $g=k \mathbf{x}$ ? Or am I wrong?
 
evinda said:
I am a little confused now... (Sweating)

Don't we have in our case $f=k^2 t$ and $g=k \mathbf{x}$ ? Or am I wrong?

Properly distinguishing, we have $t = f=k^2 \tilde t$ and $\mathbf x = \mathbf g=k \mathbf{\tilde x}$. (Thinking)
 
I like Serena said:
Properly distinguishing, we have $t = f=k^2 \tilde t$ and $\mathbf x = \mathbf g=k \mathbf{\tilde x}$. (Thinking)

And why do we find the derivative in respect to $\overline{t}$ and not in respect to $t$ ? (Thinking)
 
evinda said:
And why do we find the derivative in respect to $\overline{t}$ and not in respect to $t$ ? (Thinking)

Because otherwise we're mixing up $t$ in $u(t,\mathbf x)$ and $\tilde t$ in $t=f(\tilde t)=k^2\tilde t$. :eek:

Since we introduced $t$ first as a parameter in $u(t,\mathbf x)$, I propose we don't introduce a new ambiguous $t$ that would have $t=f(t)$. (Worried)
 
I like Serena said:
So we have a function $u(f,\mathbf g)$ and we want the derivative with respect to $\tilde t$ of $u(f(\tilde t), \mathbf g(\tilde t))$.

In our case we have $u(t,\mathbf x)\equiv u(f,\mathbf g)$, so $f\equiv t$, and ${\mathbf g}\equiv {\mathbf x}$.

So we are given the function $u(t,\mathbf x)$. Don't we look for the derivate of a function of the form $u(\text{function of f =t}, \text{ function of } \mathbf{g}=\mathbf{x})$ ? (Sweating)

Could you explain it further to me?
 
evinda said:
So we are given the function $u(t,\mathbf x)$. Don't we look for the derivate of a function of the form $u(\text{function of f =t}, \text{ function of } \mathbf{g}=\mathbf{x})$ ? (Sweating)

Could you explain it further to me?

We have:
$$u_k(\tilde t, \mathbf{\tilde x}) = u(k^2 \tilde t, k\mathbf {\tilde x})$$
From the chain rule:
$$u_{k,\tilde t}(\tilde t, \mathbf{\tilde x}) = u_t(k^2 \tilde t, k\mathbf {\tilde x}) k^2\\
u_{k,\mathbf{\tilde x}}(\tilde t, \mathbf{\tilde x}) = u_{\mathbf x}(k^2 \tilde t, k\mathbf {\tilde x})k = \nabla u(k^2 \tilde t, k\mathbf {\tilde x})k \\
u_{k,\mathbf{\tilde x}\mathbf{\tilde x}}(\tilde t, \mathbf{\tilde x}) = u_{\mathbf {xx}}(k^2 \tilde t, k\mathbf {\tilde x})k^2 = \Delta u(k^2 \tilde t, k\mathbf {\tilde x})k^2
$$
So:
$$u_{k,\tilde t} - \Delta u_k = (u_{t} - \Delta u)k^2 = 0$$
Therefore $u_k$ is also a solution of the heat equation. (Thinking)
 
I like Serena said:
We have:
$$u_k(\tilde t, \mathbf{\tilde x}) = u(k^2 \tilde t, k\mathbf {\tilde x})$$
From the chain rule:
$$u_{k,\tilde t}(\tilde t, \mathbf{\tilde x}) = u_t(k^2 \tilde t, k\mathbf {\tilde x}) k^2$$

Ah I see... (Smile)

I like Serena said:
$$u_{k,\mathbf{\tilde x}}(\tilde t, \mathbf{\tilde x}) = u_{\mathbf x}(k^2 \tilde t, k\mathbf {\tilde x})k = \nabla u(k^2 \tilde t, k\mathbf {\tilde x})k \\
u_{k,\mathbf{\tilde x}\mathbf{\tilde x}}(\tilde t, \mathbf{\tilde x}) = u_{\mathbf {xx}}(k^2 \tilde t, k\mathbf {\tilde x})k^2 = \Delta u(k^2 \tilde t, k\mathbf {\tilde x})k^2
$$

How do we calculate $u_{k,\mathbf{\tilde x}}(\tilde t, \mathbf{\tilde x})$ given that $\mathbf{\tilde x}$ is a vector? (Thinking)
 
  • #10
evinda said:
How do we calculate $u_{k,\mathbf{\tilde x}}(\tilde t, \mathbf{\tilde x})$ given that $\mathbf{\tilde x}$ is a vector? (Thinking)

Generally, we have:
$$
u_{\mathbf x} = \nabla u = (u_{x_1}, u_{x_2}, ..., u_{x_n})
$$
So we should evaluate the derivative component for component. (Nerd)

In our case the derivative with respect to the first component is:
$$ \pd {u_k}{\tilde x_1} = u_{k,\tilde x_1}(\tilde t, \tilde x_1, ..., \tilde x_n)
= \pd {}{\tilde x_1}u(k^2\tilde t, k\tilde x_1, ..., k\tilde x_n) = u_{x_1}(k^2\tilde t, k\tilde x_1, ..., k\tilde x_n)\pd{}{\tilde x_1}(k\tilde x_1)
$$
(Thinking)
 
  • #11
A ok. And so
$$\frac{\partial^2{u_k}}{\partial{\tilde{x_1}}^2}=k \frac{\partial}{\partial{\tilde{x_1}}} (u_{x_1}(k^2 \tilde{t}, k \overline{x_1}, \dots, k \overline{x_n}))=k (u_{x_1 x_1})(k^2 \tilde{t}, k \overline{x_1}, \dots, k \overline{x_n}))=k^2 (u_{x_1 x_1})(k^2 \tilde{t}, k \overline{x_1}, \dots, k \overline{x_n}))$$

And thus $\Delta u_k=\sum_{i=1}^n \frac{\partial^2 u_k}{\partial{\tilde{x_i}^2}}=k^2 [u_{x_1 x_1} (k^2 \tilde{t}, k \mathbf{x})+ \dots+ u_{x_n x_n}(k^2 \tilde{t}, k \tilde{x})]=k^2 \Delta u (k^2 \tilde{t}, k \tilde{x})$Right? (Thinking)
 
  • #12
Yes (Smile)
... if overline is the same as tilde, if we add a missing factor $k$ the third expression, and if we balance the parentheses. (Nerd)
 
  • #13
I like Serena said:
Yes (Smile)
... if overline is the same as tilde, if we add a missing factor $k$ the third expression, and if we balance the parentheses. (Nerd)

Yes, I see... Thanks a lot! (Smile)
 

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