Are Americans Really Whiners? A Discussion on the Nation's Economic Attitudes

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  • Thread starter Thread starter Ivan Seeking
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the economic attitudes of Americans, particularly in light of comments made by Phil Gramm regarding the perception of the recession and its impact on people's lives. Participants explore the implications of these views on political figures like John McCain and the broader economic context, including issues of deregulation, personal financial struggles, and the disconnect between politicians and the average citizen's experience.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants highlight Gramm's assertion that the recession is "mental," questioning whether this implies that many Americans are not genuinely suffering financially.
  • Others argue that the current economic situation, including rising fuel prices and job losses, contradicts the notion that the recession is merely a perception issue.
  • Concerns are raised about the impact of deregulation on the economy, with references to Gramm's role in the Commodity Futures Modernization Act.
  • Participants express skepticism about the portrayal of U.S. exports, suggesting that much of it consists of waste materials, which may not reflect the true state of U.S. manufacturing competitiveness.
  • There are repeated claims that McCain and Gramm, as wealthy individuals, are out of touch with the economic realities faced by average Americans.
  • Some participants note that while the GDP has not declined, the average net worth of Americans has decreased, raising questions about the accuracy of economic indicators.
  • Critiques are made regarding the perceived disconnect between politicians' views on economic pain and the lived experiences of citizens, with references to the rising costs of living and healthcare.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with significant disagreement about the interpretation of economic conditions and the implications of political statements. There is no consensus on whether the economic challenges faced by Americans are a matter of perception or reality.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include varying definitions of recession, differing interpretations of economic indicators, and the influence of personal experiences on participants' views. The discussion reflects a complex interplay of economic theory and personal anecdotes.

  • #31
Sail boats?
 
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  • #32
WarPhalange said:
Sail boats?
Sail boats with auxiliary power are still selling, though more slowly than in years past. Sales of motor launches, pleasure boats and motor-yachts are WAY off.

The largest seller of RVs, camper trailers, ATVs and watercraft in this area shut their doors two weeks ago It was a family business that has been around for decades. People who are losing their jobs and/or fighting high fuel and food prices just can't justify luxuries like this. Who needs a motor boat or party boat when you can't afford to fuel it? Who needs an RV or a 5th wheel camper when you can't afford the fuel to get to nice vacation spots? There goes at least a dozen good-paying local jobs.

One bright spot - my mother-in-law has a camp on a very popular lake with deep clean water. It used to be very noisy over there with all the personal watercraft, ski-boats, etc. Now, except for the occasional small boat putting around with low-hp motors (fishermen trolling for lake trout) it's pretty darned quiet. This may be her last summer at her camp (she's over 90), so it's nice that she gets some peace and quiet on her front deck.
 
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  • #33
I'll do everything in my power to get those offshore reserves exploited ... um, er, explored, discovered and um..." McCain said, drawing some knowing chuckles from the largely Republican audience [continued]
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/McCain_gaffe_Wants_offshore_resources_exploited_0711.html

McCain acknowledges that exploiting the coastal reserves will not reduce the price of fuel for at least five years [more like ten], and even then, only a little. He said that it will be psychologically beneficial to the economy.

Yesterday, McCain admitted that his offshore drilling proposal would probably have mostly "psychological" benefits,...
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/06/24/1163504.aspx

Apparently McCain thinks that the psychological benefit of drilling will cure the mental recession.
 
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  • #34
Not on the web yet: Gramm is stepping down.

He was the chairman of McCains economic committee and presumed to be the next Treasury Secretary.
 
  • #38
turbo-1 said:
In this case, yep!

Then you would be WRONG! :-p