Are Forbes' College Rankings Accurate?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the accuracy and validity of Forbes' college rankings, particularly focusing on the methodologies used, such as ratings from ratemyprofessor.com and citation metrics from academic papers. Participants express a range of opinions on the reliability of these rankings, their implications for educational quality, and the financial aspects of attending college in the U.S. versus other countries.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that the rankings are misleading, citing personal experiences with schools ranked higher than their perceived quality.
  • Others highlight the reliance on ratemyprofessor.com ratings as a flawed metric for educational quality.
  • A participant mentions a study from China that ranks schools based on citation counts, suggesting this method may be more valid than subjective ratings.
  • Concerns are raised about the accuracy of financial data presented in the rankings, with claims of inconsistencies in tuition and fees reported for different schools.
  • Several participants discuss the high costs of education in the U.S. compared to Canada, expressing disbelief at the tuition fees and living expenses.
  • There is a mention of the potential bias in rankings based on specific departments, questioning the overall representation of a school's quality.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the accuracy and usefulness of the Forbes rankings, with multiple competing views on what constitutes a valid measure of a college's quality. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best methods for evaluating educational institutions.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in the rankings related to subjective ratings, potential biases in citation metrics, and discrepancies in reported costs. These factors contribute to the ongoing debate about the reliability of such rankings.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to prospective college students, educators, and policymakers concerned with higher education quality and the implications of college rankings.

Greg Bernhardt
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Forbes just came out with their new rankings for America's colleges. Part of the rankings comes from ratemyprofessor.com ratings. Personally I think these rankings are very surprising if not bogus. I live in WI and I can tell you the top 3-4 ranked school in WI in the list are garbage. No way they are better than UW or Marquette. I know a kid who had a 2.4GPA and he got into Ripon College which is ranked 109. While Marquette and UW are in the 300s. Also no way is MSOE worst college in America, this is a crime!

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/94/opinions_college08_Americas-Best-Colleges_Rank.html
 
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My alma mater is listed at 376. That's pretty sick. The engineering school is top-notch and the ability to engage in research in applied technology related to industries important to the state helps keep kids in-state after graduation, even if they might be able to make more money by moving. During my freshman year, I was offered a 5-year pulp-and-paper scholarship in chemical engineering. By then, I had figured out that though I was good at it, I was far more interested in philosophy, English literature, and life sciences, so I turned it down, much to the consternation of the financial aid officer administering that scholarship. He kept me in his office for over an hour trying to get me to accept it.
 
China did a study comparing places around the world. They based it entirely on the number of times papers are cited from a school by other researchers. We are number 1.

No 'rate my prof', or 'prettiest campus' nonsense. Just based on quality of work.
 
My prestigious institution ranks in the 400's. I think I passed university of phoenix online somewhere along the way
 
Greg Bernhardt said:
Part of the rankings comes from ratemyprofessor.com ratings.

Therein lies the flaw. So, it's a ranking of schools with the coolest professors? That doesn't mean the students get a good education, or will be successful after they graduate, just that they liked their profs? Give all your students A's for no work and they'll love you, but that doesn't mean they're getting a good education.
 
My school, UC Berkeley, ranks at 73, not bad...

edit: and yes, I do not believe in these rankings
 
UCLA is #111? How can this be? :confused:

:cry:
 
This is a lot like those "Top 100 best guitarists" music magazines churn out every now and then. They all suck and do it so people pay more attention to them. There is no such thing as bad publicity.
 
  • #10
Math Is Hard said:
UCLA is #111? How can this be? :confused:

:cry:

What a nice number! It's emphasised 3 times that your college is number 1!o:)
 
  • #11
Cyrus said:
China did a study comparing places around the world. They based it entirely on the number of times papers are cited from a school by other researchers. We are number 1.

No 'rate my prof', or 'prettiest campus' nonsense. Just based on quality of work.

I wouldn't rate that either. Lots of people write papers about pointless crap over and over again. And it must be cited because that's an ethical to do if you know about it.

All ratings are biased.

Also, the cited papers might all be coming from the Biology department meanwhile all the other departments are garbage.

Seriously, no way of measurement will capture the essence of a great school. Period.
 
  • #12
Are those the actual costs of the school? Jeez, I rather kill myself then pay those fees if that's the case.
 
  • #13
One of the comments states that for School X they listed the out of state price, whereas for School Y, they listed $1000 under the in state price, meaning they even got cold hard facts wrong.
 
  • #14
WarPhalange said:
One of the comments states that for School X they listed the out of state price, whereas for School Y, they listed $1000 under the in state price, meaning they even got cold hard facts wrong.

Yeah, but I never saw a price below $13000. That's INSANE!

I have no idea how American citizens put up with that. The most expensive school in Canada is $13000 a year. Sure, it's not the BEST school in the world but we are also a MUCH smaller country. I never paid more than $5000, but now it's like $5500 the average.

I would move out of the USA, get my citizenship elsewhere, and then start school.
 
  • #15
They included room and board in all of the numbers that I checked. That can crank up the price. I have a friend going to UCLA, and her room and board costs more than tuition.
 
  • #16
WarPhalange said:
They included room and board in all of the numbers that I checked. That can crank up the price. I have a friend going to UCLA, and her room and board costs more than tuition.

With room and board, and a food plan, our university tuition goes up to $10,000. It still doesn't even COMPARE to those numbers.
 
  • #17
Whoa... cost of living must be cheap there... or do you just get huge help from the government?
 
  • #18
JasonRox said:
With room and board, and a food plan, our university tuition goes up to $10,000. It still doesn't even COMPARE to those numbers.

per year or per semester?
Mine is close to $10,000 per semester but government etc covered all my first year :smile:.
 
  • #19
rootX said:
per year or per semester?
Mine is close to $10,000 per semester but government etc covered all my first year :smile:.

That's per year.

It's pretty much the same everywhere. At worst it's $13,000.

Seriously, you guys get raped up the *** in the US.

I'm starting my Master's and I'm fully funded such that scholarships will pay for tuition, living and some discretionary income. The TA money I make is extra money that I do whatever I want. I'm going on a trip to the Carribean in December, as well as a Ski Trip to Montreal or Quebec, and most likely going to France in February, and possible to the Carribean again in April and the list just goes on.

I have no idea how you guys do it with those prices.
 
  • #20
JasonRox said:
That's per year.

It's pretty much the same everywhere. At worst it's $13,000.

Seriously, you guys get raped up the *** in the US.

I don't know which university you go to. I am paying about 8,900 per semester and then books etc makes to 10,000 (per sem) for my Ontario university.

8900 includes
Undergrad Full time Tuition
Residence
600 meal plan
plus others ..
 
  • #21
rootX said:
I don't know which university you go to. I am paying about 8,900 per semester and then books etc makes to 10,000 (per sem) for my Ontario university.

8900 includes
Undergrad Full time Tuition
Residence
600 meal plan
plus others ..

What school do you go to?

That's probably an engineering program or business. I'm a mathematics graduate student at Brock University.

As far as I can see, the prices are similar just about through the province besides those in engineering and business. Even then, the prices are nowhere near the US prices for those programs.
 
  • #22
JasonRox said:
What school do you go to?

That's probably an engineering program or business. I'm a mathematics graduate student at Brock University.

As far as I can see, the prices are similar just about through the province besides those in engineering and business. Even then, the prices are nowhere near the US prices for those programs.

Waterloo, engineering co-op.My sister goes to Queens (for Life Science). Her tuition is like ~4,000 but the residence is some 9,000 per year which also makes her per semester expenses close to ~8500.

But, I also heard(from her) paying US universities is a nightmare! But, getting into Canadian Med schools is close to impossible lol
 
  • #23
rootX said:
Waterloo, engineering co-op.


My sister goes to Queens (for Life Science). Her tuition is like ~4,000 but the residence is some 9,000 per year which also makes her per semester expenses close to ~8500.

But, I also heard(from her) paying US universities is a nightmare! But, getting into Canadian Med schools is close to impossible lol

It's STILL MUCH CHEAPER and Queen's is a more expensive school too.
 
  • #24
My school isn't even on the list! I must really suck! :biggrin:
 
  • #25
Lisa! said:
What a nice number! It's emphasised 3 times that your college is number 1!o:)

That must be it. Thanks, Lisa! whew. What a relief.

GO BRUINS!
 
  • #26
So really, how do Americans pay for such high tuition costs?

Get loans? If that's the case, someone pass me a gun...

Note: It must really suck to do post-secondary education in the US.
 
  • #27
I wouldn't be surprised if the list was actually a practical joke. US News knows colleges much better than Forbes.
 
  • #28
JasonRox said:
Yeah, but I never saw a price below $13000. That's INSANE!

I have no idea how American citizens put up with that. The most expensive school in Canada is $13000 a year. Sure, it's not the BEST school in the world but we are also a MUCH smaller country. I never paid more than $5000, but now it's like $5500 the average.

I would move out of the USA, get my citizenship elsewhere, and then start school.
Actually Canadians on average are better educated. I don't believe your 13k figure because that's way too low unless you're talking about fees back in the day when you went to school.
 
  • #29
UoToronto. Less then 6000 per year for me. I don't think any Canadian school is higher then 10,000 a year.

On that website it is cost by year??:eek:
 
  • #30
JasonRox said:
Yeah, but I never saw a price below $13000. That's INSANE!

I have no idea how American citizens put up with that. The most expensive school in Canada is $13000 a year. Sure, it's not the BEST school in the world but we are also a MUCH smaller country. I never paid more than $5000, but now it's like $5500 the average.

I would move out of the USA, get my citizenship elsewhere, and then start school.

Bright Wang said:
UoToronto. Less then 6000 per year for me. I don't think any Canadian school is higher then 10,000 a year.

Yea, tuition cost the States is ridiculous! I'm up north right now for grad school. It seems like all schools up here have close to the same (low) tuition per year. Its awesome!