Are Macy's jackets made from dog fur?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the controversy regarding Macy's jackets that were initially advertised as featuring faux fur but were later found to contain fur from a species of dog known as "raccoon dog." Participants explore the implications of this revelation, including ethical considerations surrounding the use of animal fur in fashion, the emotional attachment people have to certain animals, and the perceived double standards in how different animals are treated in society.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion over the differing societal attitudes towards dogs and cats compared to other animals like minks and possums, suggesting that emotional attachment plays a significant role.
  • Others argue that the issue is more about marketing than morality, highlighting the inconsistency in how people react to different types of animal fur.
  • A few participants mention the potential shortage of faux fur in manufacturing, which may have contributed to the use of real fur.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of selling real fur as faux fur, regardless of the animal source, raising concerns about consumer trust.
  • Some participants share anecdotes about their experiences with animals, illustrating the complexity of human-animal relationships and perceptions of cuteness influencing moral judgments.
  • One participant questions the economic logic behind the pricing of real versus faux fur, noting a personal experience with a high-quality faux fur blanket.
  • Another participant brings up the Dog and Cat Protection Act of 2000, questioning the enforcement and implications of animal welfare laws in relation to fur trade.
  • There is a mention of the raccoon dog itself, with some participants expressing interest in the animal and clarifying its classification, which complicates the narrative of "dog fur."

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the ethical implications of using animal fur, the marketing practices of retailers, or the societal double standards regarding different animals. Multiple competing views remain throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants express various assumptions about consumer behavior, emotional attachments, and the definitions of animal welfare, which are not universally agreed upon. The discussion also highlights the complexity of animal classification and the implications for labeling products.

Rach3
NEW YORK - Macy's has pulled from its shelves and its Web site two styles of Sean John hooded jackets, originally advertised as featuring faux fur, after an investigation by the nation's largest animal protection organization concluded that the garments were actually made from a certain species of dog called "raccoon dog."

"First these jackets were falsely advertised as faux fur, and then it turned out that the fur came from a type of dog," said Wayne Pacelle, president and CEO of the Humane Society of the United States.

...Orlando Veras, a spokesman at Macy's, a division of Federated Department Stores Inc., confirmed Friday that the retailer had removed the jackets, releasing a statement saying that it has a "long-standing policy against the selling of any dog or cat fur." He continued, "This policy is clearly communicated to all suppliers."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061222/ap_on_bi_ge/macy_s_dog_fur

:eek:
 
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Why are dogs and cats treated different from minks, possums or muskrats?
 
Apparently there is a shortage of faux fur in China where the garments were made.
 
Gokul43201 said:
Why are dogs and cats treated different from minks, possums or muskrats?

minks, possums or muskrats aren't common pets. We think of our dogs and cats as humans.
 
Yep, that's pretty much it, the emotional attachment people have for animals they consider "companions" rather than "livestock."

Of course, in this case, it goes even beyond that, because there are people who would opt not to buy ANY real fur, so them being told it's faux fur, and then learning that it's really animal fur would be a big issue for them, regardless of which animal it's from.
 
Moonbear said:
Yep, that's pretty much it, the emotional attachment people have for animals they consider "companions" rather than "livestock."
So it's from marketing considerations, not moral considerations. People! :rolleyes:
 
Gokul43201 said:
So it's from marketing considerations, not moral considerations. People! :rolleyes:

Yeah, it's definitely a bias people have. If it were up to my cat, she'd say make all the coats out of dogs, and she might not even object to other cats. :smile:
 
"Macy's kills dogs for fur"

Sorry but that title is completely misleading.

But anyway, I do not understand this double standard that some people have by having no problems with leather coats or even fox or mink coats and then getting all upset about dog or cat skins.
 
Lol, I dunno. I would feel OK being with someone who is wearing a fur coat (I don't wear fur. lol) but if I knew it was made of cat's fur... that's just creepy. Human nature I guess. It doesn't make sense to me logically, but that's just how it goes I guess.
 
  • #10
dontdisturbmycircles said:
Lol, I dunno. I would feel OK being with someone who is wearing a fur coat (I don't wear fur. lol) but if I knew it was made of cat's fur... that's just creepy.
*Makes best Homer Simpson impression* Cat fur... Comfy...
 
  • #11
When I first heard about this story, I couldn't help chuckling a little. 'Twasn't so long ago that shops would sell fake fur as the real thing...now they sell real fur as fake!
 
  • #12

The dog and cat protection act of 2000 [/url]

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/CustomsToday/2001/April/custoday_dogs.xml

Last year, Customs was mandated, under the "Dog and Cat Protection Act of 2000," to formulate an enforcement plan to stop the import and export of merchandise containing dog or cat fur obtained inhumanely.
I guess this makes it okay to import/export mink fur obtained inhumanely?
 
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  • #13
Funny thing: I have never met anyone who hates any animal more than a certain mink farmer. He absolutely hates minks. I guess the darn things are viscious. But in either case, we have many laws intended to prevent cruelty to animals. Mink are probably in there as well.

As another aside, I knew another guy who tried raising ostriches. After they totally kicked his ass one day he didn't like them anymore either.
 
  • #14
Ivan Seeking said:
As another aside, I knew another guy who tried raising ostriches. After they totally kicked his ass one day he didn't like them anymore either.
This is priceless! :smile:
 
  • #15
:biggrin: I sure thought so! He was off work for about a week...
 
  • #17
Here's another picture:

http://www.canids.org/gallery/Popup19383.jpg

They are pretty cute looking. lol :-)
 
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  • #18
Ivan Seeking said:
But in either case, we have many laws intended to prevent cruelty to animals. Mink are probably in there as well.

Yes, and with animals used for fur, it doesn't pay to mistreat them...literally. An obvious sign of ill-health or distress in those animals is that their fur starts to become scraggly and dry and poorly groomed. If you want a very plush, high quality (and therefore high price) coat out of their pelts, you want to keep them very healthy and happy while raising them. Educating fur farmers that they can make more money if they treat their animals well has made more improvement in the animals' welfare than just passing laws.

I do respect people who choose not to use animal products of any kind (fur, leather, meat, etc.)...I disagree with them and will vehemently argue against them if they want to push that on others, but I respect that as their individual moral position. On the other hand, I don't have much respect when people pick and choose based on the animal's cuteness (snakeskin or eel skin wallets are okay, or leather tennis shoes are okay, but not coats from the cute furry minks).
 
  • #19
ShawnD said:
Did anybody else google to see what a raccoon dog is?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raccoon_Dog

I now want one of those as a pet. They look so cute.:biggrin:

They are very cute! Though, if that article is accurate, they aren't a dog at all. So, the argument that the fur is from dogs doesn't seem to be accurate or apply in this case. It's still an issue if they were selling it as faux fur and it's actually real fur.
 
  • #20
Seems weird doesn't it? How can real fur cost less than fake fur? I have a blanket made of fake fur that feels like mink; 100% cotton o:)
 
  • #21
Moonbear said:
On the other hand, I don't have much respect when people pick and choose based on the animal's cuteness (snakeskin or eel skin wallets are okay, or leather tennis shoes are okay, but not coats from the cute furry minks).
And minks are really CUTE! We have weasels, minks, martens, fishers, and otters here in Maine, as well as their cousins the skunks, and although fishers are quite secretive and stand-offish, the others are curious and pretty fearless. I have had baby skunks around my feet while doing astrophotography while their mother was rummaging through our compost pile. Once she was satisfied that I was no threat, she ignored me and the little ones were as curious as all get-out. I have sat on a cairn on top of a mountain in northern Maine and shared a sandwich with a weasel - it didn't come to my hand, but would repeatedly come out and grab pieces of meat and bread, take them into the rock pile and come out for another - just a couple of feet beyond my reach. I have had young otters come up to my canoe while fly-fishing and bob vertically out of the water to get a look at me. They would obey their mother's warning barks, but only half-heartedly.

I love animals. I also hunt deer and partridge and fish for trout and salmon. My family is mostly French-Canadian in origin with a LOT of American Indian blood (Metis). I can say that I don't have a single relative who doesn't respect wildlife, and only one of my cousins has adopted a vegetarian diet. While I was growing up, we often hunted and fished in small family groups, and we picked berries, fiddleheads, apples, etc in season, and most of us also raised vegetable gardens. I don't understand the "moral" argument for vegetarianism - it is quite foreign to someone with my upbringing.
 
  • #22
Ivan Seeking said:
As another aside, I knew another guy who tried raising ostriches. After they totally kicked his ass one day he didn't like them anymore either.

That made me laugh really, really hard.
 
  • #23
GeorginaS said:
That made me laugh really, really hard.

:biggrin: You can imagine what life at work was like when he returned.
 
  • #24
Ivan Seeking said:
Funny thing: I have never met anyone who hates any animal more than a certain mink farmer. He absolutely hates minks. I guess the darn things are vicious. But in either case, we have many laws intended to prevent cruelty to animals. Mink are probably in there as well.
Minks are very smart and territorial. If they are cooped up in individual cages, unable to move, and surrounded by other minks with which they are unable to interact and establish a hierarchy (who's the boss!), they will be necessarily frustrated and aggressive. Having shared our home with many ferrets over the years, and having rescued several ferrets who were confined in little cages and who were aggressive as a result, I can tell you that I would gladly adopt a mink or two and give them a good home. The animals in this group are innately inquisitive and respond positively to kind treatment.

My wife and I regularly visit an animal rescue and donate money to them and in return Don and Carlene let us get as close to the animals as they do. One spring, they had a female baby skunk that was following us around as we looked at the foxes, bobcats, etc, and with Carlene's OK, I picked her up and held her. She looked up at me and curled up in my hands and cuddled into my sweatshirt, happy as a clam. My wife asked if she was descented and Carlene said that she had her full armament, so that she could defend herself when she was old enough to fend for herself and be released. My wife persuaded me to pass her over, and then refused to relinquish her for the next 1/2 hr or so as we strolled around looking at raptors, deer, migratory birds with medical problems, etc. We really wanted to steal that little girl, though.