Are photon energies constant for any observers?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the constancy of photon energies along null geodesics in the context of general relativity and the implications of scale invariance in both general curved spacetime and flat Minkowski spacetime. Participants explore the relationship between photon energy, observer motion, and the Doppler effect, particularly in scenarios involving free-fall frames.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the scale invariance of null geodesics and Maxwell's equations implies that the energy/momentum of photons remains constant along their trajectory, independent of observer effects.
  • Another participant argues that observers moving at different speeds will measure different energies for the photon due to the Doppler effect, indicating that photon energy is not constant for all observers.
  • A question is raised about the scenario where both the emitter and absorber are in free-fall frames, asking whether this would eliminate the Doppler effect and result in energy differences solely due to varying clock rates.
  • It is noted that relative motion still introduces Doppler effects, even in free-fall frames.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the constancy of photon energy, with some asserting it remains constant along null geodesics while others emphasize the role of observer motion and the Doppler effect. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of free-fall frames on photon energy measurements.

Contextual Notes

The discussion involves assumptions about the nature of scale invariance, the effects of relative motion on energy measurements, and the conditions under which Doppler effects may or may not apply. These factors are not fully resolved within the conversation.

jcap
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Title should be: Are photon energies constant along null geodesics? [Mentor's note: Title corrected]

As I understand it in general relativity the paths of light rays, given by null geodesics, are scale invariant.

Is that correct?

Now Maxwell's equations in flat Minkowski spacetime are also scale invariant.

General curved spacetime is locally flat in the vicinity of any point along a trajectory in spacetime.

Do these facts imply that the energy/momentum of photons is actually constant along the trajectory of the light beam?

Observers themselves and their measuring equipment do have fixed length scales so that their energies are not scale invariant. The energies of the emitting and absorbing atoms change but the energy of the photon itself is constant. This would be an explanation of the gravitational redshift effect without the assumption of changing photon energy.

To summarise: the scale of a photon is set purely by the emitting atom - after emission neither Maxwell's laws nor general relativity change the photon's scale.
 
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However observers modiffract different speeds relative to one another will measure different energies for the photon as they measure different frequencies. This is just the Doppler effect at work.
 
Nugatory said:
However observers modiffract different speeds relative to one another will measure different energies for the photon as they measure different frequencies. This is just the Doppler effect at work.

What happens if the emitter and the absorber are both locally in free-fall frames?

Would there be no Doppler effect in this case - just a difference in energy due to the different clock rates at emitter and absorber?
 
jcap said:
What happens if the emitter and the absorber are both locally in free-fall frames?

Would there be no Doppler effect in this case - just a difference in energy due to the different clock rates at emitter and absorber?

There is still Doppler if there is relative motion.
 

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