Are space and time quantized quantities?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of whether space and time are quantized quantities, exploring implications for quantum physics and the nature of these dimensions. Participants examine theoretical frameworks, philosophical implications, and the relationship between quantum mechanics and classical concepts of space and time.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether assuming quantization of time and space could enhance predictions in quantum physics, referencing concepts like "Planck time."
  • One participant argues against the notion of quantizing time and space, suggesting that doing so would lead to unpredictable consequences and that current quantum mechanics does not support such a framework.
  • Another participant expresses a philosophical view that space and time may not be real entities but constructs of conscious observation.
  • Some participants discuss the idea that space and time are axiomatic in classical physics, with implications for understanding particle interactions and the nature of time as influenced by interactions with the universe.
  • A participant mentions the concept of Minkowski space in quantum electrodynamics, asserting that space and time are continuous parameters and that their coordinates do not have absolute meaning.
  • There is a discussion about two approaches to introducing quantized space and time: one as a mathematical reformulation without physical justification, and the other through observable discrete spectra, particularly in the context of quantum gravity.
  • One participant raises concerns about the abstract nature of mathematical points and distances, suggesting that these concepts complicate the understanding of space's existence.
  • Another participant emphasizes that physics relies on approximations rather than exact measurements, arguing that macroscopic objects can be treated as point-like for practical purposes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether space and time are quantized. Multiple competing views are presented, with some advocating for quantization and others rejecting the idea, leading to an unresolved discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the implications of quantizing space and time, the nature of measurements in quantum mechanics, and the philosophical underpinnings of these concepts. The discussion highlights the complexity and ambiguity surrounding the definitions and roles of space and time in physics.

  • #31
rpt said:
Why do people research beyond standard model.
b/c they know that the model (SM of elementary particle physics + gravity) incomplete and (partially) inconsistent mathematically
 
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  • #32
>People build theories based on the observations they make in the macro world.

The existing theories, from QM to the Standard Model, and GR by itself, are all, as you say, based on macroscopic observations. We observe (in 1900) the spectral lines of Hydrogen, and after a lot of ingenious work, *deduce* something about the energy levels and the reason why electrons are not classical particles and do not radiate while in a stationary state (for example). Later, we look at tracks of bubbles big enough for us to see, in a bubble chamber at a particle accelerator, and deduce amazing microscopic physics things like
the omega minus particle, and the unification of the electro-weak force (1970s). This experience shows that we can have a lot of success at using macroscopic observations to deduce things about the microscopic world that we cannot 'see' with our eyes, but by combining logic, physical intuition, and these experimental data which are always based on macroscopic observations by our senses. So your comment

>I believe that nobody knows exactly what is going on even in the quantum world.

is, perhaps, unduly negative. We do not yet know everything going on in the interaction between curved space-time and quantum fields, nor cosmology. But probably most of what we know we know exactly...except for the effects of gravity on quantum systems. And there are problems of inconsistency and circularity and overlapping domains when and if one tries to *axiomatise* our knowledge.
This refers to what tom.stoer said in

>the model (SM of elementary particle physics + gravity) incomplete and (partially) inconsistent mathematically

But this does not mean that we don't know all sorts of things...it just means we have trouble organising our knowledge into an axiomatic system. The history of physics shows that usually this trouble is temporary.
 
  • #33
It is difficult to believe in theories which say "can explain everything except few things, its a matter of clarifying those few exceptions"
Once people believed that classical physics could explain everything except few things like the movement of the planet Mercury. However when a new theory emerged to explain this, it changed the entire framework on which the previous theory was build upon.
 
  • #34
Someone will, I hope, correct me if I am wrong, but the current state
is different than the perihelion of Mercury and the Stefan-Boltzmann
paradox, back before the GR rev and the Quantum rev. What you
refer to is stubborn (although small) experimental facts. But at present
what we have are not discrepancies with experiment, just logical contradictions, like the infinities of renormalisation or quantum measurement conceptual issues.
 
  • #35
andrebourbaki said:
...
But at present what we have are not discrepancies with experiment, just logical contradictions, like the infinities of renormalisation or quantum measurement conceptual issues.
Yes, something like that.

There seems to be a little chance to get the standard model + gravity consistent up to Planck scale using ordinary quantum field theory plus non-perturbative renormalization (asymptotic safety of gravity, current discussion regarding Higgs in the 125 GeV range using this approach). Nevertheless many people think that there are various theoretical or conceptual indications that something is missing.

For me this indicates a kind of paradigm change in physics.
 

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