Are there cheap smartcar EVs with electric motors attached to wheels?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility and potential design of low-cost electric vehicles (EVs) with electric motors attached to the wheels. Participants explore various aspects including battery technology, vehicle weight, and the implications of transitioning from gas to electric vehicles. The conversation touches on theoretical designs, practical challenges, and the current state of EV technology.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants mention the availability of small electric motors and lightweight batteries, suggesting that a lightweight EV could be constructed at a low cost.
  • Others argue that existing EV designs, such as the GM Bolt, incorporate heavy components like traditional gasoline engines and transmissions, which could be replaced by lighter electric motors.
  • There is a question raised about why electric vehicles with motors per wheel are not being mass-produced, implying that there may be significant engineering challenges that have yet to be addressed.
  • One participant critiques existing hybrid systems for still relying on internal combustion engines and suggests that these systems are not ideal compared to a fully electric design.
  • Concerns are expressed regarding the quality of references provided, with a call for peer-reviewed articles to support technical claims about EV efficiency and design choices.
  • Regenerative braking is discussed, with mixed opinions on its cost-effectiveness and overall benefits in small vehicles.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the practicality and current implementation of electric vehicles with wheel-mounted motors. While some see potential in the proposed designs, others highlight existing engineering challenges and question the effectiveness of current EV technologies. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of consensus on the feasibility of proposed designs and the need for more rigorous technical references to support claims made in the discussion.

AmericaPacific42
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TL;DR
Directly powered wheels (no transmissions,) that are freeway-legal? Could they just replace the gas tank with a large LiFePO4 battery? Get rid of the hood completely?
There are small 15kw electric motors <$500*.
LiFePO4 batteries that offer 60kwh** weigh <50kilograms, cost <$500, take as much space as the gas used to take.
The hood could be removed or replaced with extra seats or used for cargo.

Ultra-lightweight 3D printed magnesium bodies*** should be possible to mass produce for <$500 if the assembly is optimized.

After our electrical grids are powered by solar arrays, breeze farms, hydroelectric, geothermal, off-shore hydro (or all of the above,) the atmosphere will always be fresh, the Earth will be good for us all, plus for all of the other creatures we share it with.

Because fossil fuels are still used to make a lot of the electrical grid's power, there will still be some smoke, but at least the electrical grid places the gas motors away from people usually, so the air is much better where we breathe.

Who has started to work towards such vehicles? What is the cheapest way to make them so far?
Who should I talk to if I wish to get the authorities to support a recall of all gas vehicles to replace them with pure EV vehicles to improve our health (they are much quieter, as well as give us healthier air to breathe)?

* https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/96v-15kw-ac-motor-with-curtis_62023026337.html

** at full load the whole time, they would just last 1h, but a small lightweight vehicle with small tires could cruise very a while after it reaches the target speed. Also, breaks would just be the electric motors, so all forward power would be recovered back to the LiFePO4 batteries except losses to aerodynamic drag or to tire friction, so they should be able to go over 300kilometers per charge easily. If solar arrays were added to the roof, you would never be stranded, just have to wait for bright skies to recharge. There are 220watt solar arrays for <$200**** that are about the size of a small car roof.

*** https://www.google.com/search?q=lightest-weight+magnesium+smartcar+body

**** https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ZIZ6VY6/?tag=pfamazon01-20
 
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Engineering news on Phys.org
The bolt has a 435Kg 60Kwh battery pack
https://electrek.co/2016/01/11/gm-bolt-ev-battery-pack-fast-charging-full-specs/
but it just supplements a traditional gasoline engine with a traditional transmission, so it is completely wasted on it.

The transmission probably weighs as much as the batteries, plus the four wheel hub motors probably weigh a lot less compared to the gas motor, so the vehicle would be far lighter. Gas is heavy too, plus the frame/body for the hood are heavy.

So although the article makes the batteries seem like a problem ("Heavy batteries! Good thing they are optional! Who wants an electric vehicle powered by batteries!?") they are much lighter compared to what they could replace.
 
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So the overall question in response to your thread start is "Why is this not being done now?" -- There are a lot of very smart and motivated engineers working on this problem, so if your vision of an electric car with an electric motor per wheel is not being mass produced yet, there are probably good engineering reasons for that. How much research have you done so far into the current EV optimizations?

AmericaPacific42 said:
Ultra-lightweight 3D printed magnesium bodies*** should be possible to mass produce for <$500 if the assembly is optimized.
Reference link please (not Google or Amazon, a real technical reference).
 
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berkeman said:
So the overall question in response to your thread start is "Why is this not being done now?" -- There are a lot of very smart and motivated engineers working on this problem, so if your vision of an electric car with an electric motor per wheel is not being mass produced yet, there are probably good engineering reasons for that. How much research have you done so far into the current EV optimizations?
I read for hours about them. All they did was add electric motors to the wheels of regular gas cars, to charge the batteries while they break, plus add some of the power back while they accelerate. https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/electric_basics_hev.html

Or, they replaced the gas motor with a genset that powers electric motors. Usually with a transmission and gearbox included, for that extra resistance and noise we all need so much.
Either is far from ideal, because they both require internal combustion engines and transmissions.
berkeman said:
Reference link please (not Google or Amazon, a real technical reference).
https://homework.study.com/explanat...hese-ions-and-converting-them-to-neutral.html https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2213956721001316
 
Your links are substandard. Please take care to find mainstream peer-reviewed articles when you want to discuss technical subjects at PF.

Your thread will be closed unless you find and post peer-reviewed journal articles about EV efficiency, or alternately, good quality articles about why companies like Tesla and Toyoty chose their EV/Hybrid system topologies.

Your question about why not use one electric motor per wheel is a valid question for discussion, but you are going about it the wrong way to try to start that discussion here at PF.
 
WRT power-recovery motors:

Regenerative braking: how it works and is it worth it in small ...​

https://electrek.co › 2018/04/24 › regenerative-braking-...
Apr 24, 2018 — Since we need to brake often, regenerative braking is the next best ... This would effectively increase a 100 mile car's range to 132 miles, ...
Hardly worth the extra cost just to celebrate 32% better mileage. You could have bought 32% more gas with what you "saved" by your purchase of whatever "electric" car you were scammed with.
 
AmericaPacific42 said:
WRT power-recovery motors:

Hardly worth the extra cost just to celebrate 32% better mileage. You could have bought 32% more gas with what you "saved" by your purchase of whatever "electric" car you were scammed with.
Lordy. Thread is done; check your PMs in a few minutes for the message about "misinformation".
 
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