Are Vectors in the Column Space and Nullspace of Matrix A Linearly Independent?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the linear independence of vectors in the column space and nullspace of a matrix A. Participants explore the implications of the rank-nullity theorem and the relationships between different vector spaces associated with linear transformations.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether vectors in the column space of A and the nullspace of A can be considered linearly independent.
  • Another participant suggests that the existence of nilpotent matrices may imply that the vectors are not linearly independent.
  • A different participant argues that it cannot be assumed that vectors transformed by T will belong to the nullspace, emphasizing that linear independence depends on whether the transformation results in a non-zero vector.
  • One participant discusses the relationship between A and A^T, noting that the nullspace of A^T is the orthogonal complement of the image of A, and vice versa, raising questions about the independence of vectors in R(A) and N(A).
  • Another participant clarifies that the image and kernel of a linear transformation exist in different vector spaces, suggesting that discussing their independence is not meaningful unless both are considered within the same space.
  • A later reply acknowledges a misunderstanding regarding the spaces involved, reiterating that the question is relevant only for transformations from V to V.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the linear independence of vectors in the column space and nullspace, with no consensus reached on the matter. The discussion includes multiple competing perspectives and interpretations of the relationships between the vector spaces.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the importance of the specific context of linear transformations and the dimensionality of the involved spaces, which may affect the interpretation of independence. The discussion also touches on the implications of nilpotent matrices and the orthogonal relationships between spaces.

td21
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I know the rank nullity theorem.
But can i say that the vectors in the column space of A and the vectors in the nullspace of A are linearly independent?
Thanks and this is not a hw.
 
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i think the nilpotent matrix may say its not true, any thought?
 
no, you don't know that vectors Tv will belong in your nullspace or not (in general , but you might have an invariant transformation, or a projection). You know that v is linearly independent from your nullspace vectors if Tv is not zero
 
Well, I don't know if this is what you refer to, but the relation between A

and A^T seen as maps is that the nullspace of A^T is the orthogonal complement

of Im(A) (the image set of A, or, if A represents a map L:V-->W: {Ax: x in V} )

and the image of A^T is the orthogonal complement of N(A), the nullspace of A.
 
Bacle said:
Well, I don't know if this is what you refer to, but the relation between A

and A^T seen as maps is that the nullspace of A^T is the orthogonal complement

of Im(A) (the image set of A, or, if A represents a map L:V-->W: {Ax: x in V} )

and the image of A^T is the orthogonal complement of N(A), the nullspace of A.

Well what i mean is that are the vectors in R(A) and N(A) linearly independent.
 
for a linear transformation T:U-->V, Im(T) = T(U) and ker(T) = null(T) are subspaces of two different vector spaces. T(U) is a subspace of V, ker(T) is a subspace of U. so it doesn't even make sense to say that the vectors of T(U) and ker(T) are "independent", they aren't even in the same vector space.

Even if T:V-->V, you can have Tv be in ker(T), for example if v is in the null space of T^2 (in fact with nilpotent matrices of order 2, this is exactly what happens).
 
Last edited:
yea, I misread row space and column space, not nullspace. But then , like Deveno said,
your question would only make sense for a map T:V-->V.
 

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