Argument against Dark Matter - please enjoy yourself for a moment

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of dark matter, contrasting it with alternative theories such as Modified Newtonian Dynamics (MOND). Participants share humorous analogies and reflections on the nature of forces and interactions, particularly in relation to the unresolved aspects of "action at a distance."

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant shares a humorous webpage that presents a conversation between Arnold Schwarzenegger and a physicist, suggesting it is entertaining for those interested in dark matter and MOND.
  • Another participant uses a caveman analogy to illustrate their understanding of dark matter, comparing it to the unseen connection of a magnet pulling an iron nugget.
  • A later reply reiterates the caveman analogy and emphasizes the ongoing mystery of how particles interact at a distance, noting that the concept of "action at a distance" remains unresolved.
  • One participant mentions that some theories, including those involving virtual photons, have predictions that match experimental results to high precision, indicating a level of understanding regarding electromagnetic interactions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of humor and skepticism regarding dark matter and the nature of forces, with no clear consensus on the validity of dark matter versus alternative theories like MOND. The discussion reflects differing views on the understanding of fundamental interactions.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in current understanding, particularly regarding the mechanisms of particle interactions and the concept of "action at a distance," which remains a topic of debate.

lenfromkits
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Hi. I just had to share this little gem. Regardless of your points of view on Dark Matter versus other ideas (ie MOND in this case), this webpage is so well done and funny if you're a geek like me.

(a conversation between Arnold Schwarzenegger and a physicist)...
http://burro.astr.cwru.edu/ArnoldMOND/ahnoldmond.html
 
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Amusing. I think of dark matter by pretending I'm a a caveman trying to understand a permanent magnet. I see that an iron nugget suspended by a plant fiber is pulled in the direction of the magnet, but, cannot see any fiber connecting them.
 
Chronos said:
Amusing. I think of dark matter by pretending I'm a a caveman trying to understand a permanent magnet. I see that an iron nugget suspended by a plant fiber is pulled in the direction of the magnet, but, cannot see any fiber connecting them.

Interesting. Well. Considering we still do not truly know how two particles can affect each other at a distance, we're still stuck on the magnet puzzle! We're probably just better at using string instead of plant fiber.
:)

(ie, "action at a distance" isn't solved, although some theorize about virtual photons)
 
Last edited:
lenfromkits said:
Interesting. Well. Considering we still do not truly know how two particles can affect each other at a distance, we're still stuck on the magnet puzzle! We're probably just better at using string instead of plant fiber.
:)

(ie, "action at a distance" isn't solved, although some theorize about virtual photons)

And, those "some" find their predictions matching experimental results to as many as 11 significant figures. (And, more generally, to as many significant figures as both the predictions and experiments can be trusted to, given uncertainty bounds.)

The protestations of Insane Clown Posse not withstanding, we really do understand magnets. Virtual photons are just one particular way of expressing that 4-momentum is transferred from one object to the other via electromagnetic fields with certain dynamical properties.
 

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