Athletics Question: Establishing Relationship between Energy & Distance

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around establishing a relationship between energy expenditure and distance in running events, specifically focusing on middle and long-distance races. Participants explore the mathematical modeling of energy based on distance and speed, and seek empirical relationships among various race times.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a formula for energy expenditure in running: E = Distance * (Speed)^3, and calculates energy values for 5000m and 10000m races.
  • Another participant suggests that energy expenditure is proportional to distance, citing that resistance remains approximately constant.
  • A third participant references a cubic relationship for energy expenditure and encourages others to explore empirical relationships using suggested race times.
  • Participants discuss equivalent performances for various distances, providing approximate times for 800m, 1500m, and 3000m based on established 5000m and 10000m times.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the exact nature of the relationship between energy and distance, with participants presenting differing views on the mathematical modeling and empirical relationships involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the applicability of the cubic relationship and its empirical validation across different distances. The discussion includes assumptions about resistance and energy expenditure that may not be universally accepted.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to athletes, coaches, sports scientists, and mathematicians exploring the dynamics of energy expenditure in running and related sports.

eldrick
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Here is a problem to get your teeth around :

It is generally believed that a 5000m time of 13'00 is ~ equivalent to a 10000m time of 27'10 ( +/- 10s ). Now, it's pretty established that the energy expended in any run is given by :

E = Distance * ( Speed )^3

For 5000m, the Energy expended is : 5000 * ( 5000/780 )^3 = 1317031 u

For 10000m, the Energy expended is : 10000 * ( 10000/1630 )^3 = 2309070 u

( A ratio difference in this case of of ~ 1.753 )

I'd be grateful if posters could like at those energy values & "see" any empirical relationship to them ( to me it looked like 3^0.5, but we need something more sophisticated than by just doubling distance the energy expended only goes up by 3^0.5 . I'm looking for a variable relationship between different distances , e.g. between 1500m & 3000m rather than a fixed ratio which doesn't work as you increase distances ).

Thanks for any help.
 
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We are looking for "equivalent" performances for the main middle distance & distance track races : 800m, 1500m, 3000m.

For some guidance, it is generally reckoned that a 13'00 or a 27'10 is in ballpark of

800m : 1'43.5 +/- 1.0s

1500m : 3'31.0 +/- 2.0s

3000m : 7'30.0 +/- 5.0s
 
eldrick said:
Here is a problem to get your teeth around :

It is generally believed that a 5000m time of 13'00 is ~ equivalent to a 10000m time of 27'10 ( +/- 10s ). Now, it's pretty established that the energy expended in any run is given by :

E = Distance * ( Speed )^3

The energy expended when running is just proportional to distance, because the
resistance is approximately constant.
Even for an activity where nearly all of the power goes into overcoming air resistance,
such as cycling, the energy is only:

E = Distance * ( Speed )^2

or E = Time * ( Speed )^3
 
Believe me, the relationship is cubic :

http://www.atm.ox.ac.uk/rowing/physics/basics.html#section5

Use that.

Try & see if an empirical relationship using cubic relationship for energy &/or the suggested range of times above is obvious ( Maple or Mathematica ? Or just plain intuition/"eureka" moment )

Many Thanks
 

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