Atomic orbitals: change during excitation?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the behavior of atomic orbitals during electron excitation and the implications for energy states within an atom. Participants explore the nature of electron states, the effective potential experienced by electrons, and the overall description of atomic systems, including the effects of ionization.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that when electrons are excited to higher energy states, the effective potential experienced by other electrons changes, potentially shifting energy states.
  • Others argue that it is more appropriate to describe the atom as a whole rather than focusing on individual electron states, emphasizing the role of the total wavefunction.
  • One participant questions whether the total wavefunction of the atom can be described as the antisymmetrization of individual electron wavefunctions.
  • There is a discussion about whether the atom in an excited state can be fully described by the orbitals occupied by its electrons.
  • Some participants propose that atomic orbitals are eigenstates of the total Hamiltonian, while others challenge the implications of this for the energy of the ground state.
  • One participant notes that after ionization, the atom becomes a different system with distinct energy levels and spectral lines.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriateness of discussing individual electron states versus the atom as a whole. There is no consensus on the implications of excitation on energy states or the nature of the wavefunction, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the effective nuclear charge and the role of electron correlation in approximating energy states. The discussion also reflects uncertainty about the relationship between the Hamiltonian and energy eigenstates in different atomic configurations.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying atomic physics, quantum mechanics, or anyone exploring the complexities of electron interactions within atoms.

pierce15
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Sorry if this question has been asked before or is common knowledge. It seems to me that when one or more electrons in an atom is excited to a higher energy state, then the effective potential experienced by other electrons should be different from the potential in the ground state. Hence the energy of each state should shift slightly. Is that wrong, or has such an effect been observed?
 
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It's not really appropriate to talk about states of individual electrons in an atom, the correct description is to talk about the atom as a whole. However, if you use some approximate orbital model of an atom, then the effective nuclear charge seen by an electron depends on what orbitals the other electrons occupy.
 
hilbert2 said:
It's not really appropriate to talk about states of individual electrons in an atom, the correct description is to talk about the atom as a whole. However, if you use some approximate orbital model of an atom, then the effective nuclear charge seen by an electron depends on what orbitals the other electrons occupy.

Sorry, I'm a bit rusty. Could you say whether these statements are true/false so that I can ask the question correctly:

1. The total wavefunction of the atom (ignoring nuclear spin) is equal to the antisymmetrization of the wavefunction of each electron
1.5. The atom in an excited state can be completely described by which orbital each electron is in, right?
2. The "atomic orbitals" are eigenstates for each electron of the total hamiltonian due to the nucleus + other electrons
3. The ground state of the atom is an eigenstate of the hamiltonian of the entire system
4. If statement 2 is true: the energy of the ground state is equal to the sum of the energies of each state occupied by an electron
 
If you have something like a lithium atom, its state is not described by saying "electron 1 has wavefunction ##\psi_1 \left(\mathbf{r_1}\right)##, electron 2 has wavefunction ##\psi_2 \left(\mathbf{r_2}\right)## and electron 3 ##\psi_3 \left(\mathbf{r_3}\right)##. Rather, we say that the state of the whole atom (assuming stationary nucleus) is some function ##\psi (\mathbf{r_1},\mathbf{r_2},\mathbf{r_3},s_1 ,s_2 , s_3)##, where the ##s_i## are the spin variables.

In the orbital approximation (where electron correlation is ignored), however, it is assumed that a good approximation of the energy states can be obtained by making a product form wavefunction ##\psi_1 \left(\mathbf{r_1}\right)\psi_2 \left(\mathbf{r_2}\right)\psi_3 \left(\mathbf{r_3}\right)## and applying an antisymmetrization operator on it.
 
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Ok, I see it now. The Hamiltonian for the system defines a set of energy eigenstates for the atom.

Does an ionized atom then have different energy levels from the original atom since it has a different hamiltonian?
 
It's a different system after ionizatìon, so yes, it has different energy levels and spectral lines.
 

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