Bandwidth of Space: Threshold Capacity and Limitations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the concept of the bandwidth of space, particularly in relation to electromagnetic (EM) waves and their capacity to carry data. Participants explore theoretical limits, potential formulas for calculation, and the implications of high and low frequency EM waves. The conversation touches on concepts from physics, including black holes, quantum effects, and the nature of EM fields.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the bandwidth of 1 m³ of space and seeks a formula to calculate it, noting the ability to tune into multiple EM waves in a single location.
  • Another participant suggests that an excessive amount of EM radiation in one place could lead to the formation of a black hole, indicating a limit to bandwidth.
  • Quantum effects, such as the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle (HUP), are mentioned as potential limits to bandwidth.
  • A participant argues that bandwidth is not an entirely accurate term in this context and proposes that storage capacity relates to the volume of space while processing power relates to the energy of the system.
  • Concerns are raised about the limitations imposed by the antennae of receivers and transmitters on bandwidth.
  • There is a discussion about whether EM radiation can create black holes, with differing opinions expressed on this topic.
  • One participant notes that determining bandwidth would require the air or medium to be moving, suggesting that static conditions may not provide a meaningful answer.
  • High-frequency interactions, such as photon collisions, are discussed as a potential limit, influenced by local vacuum conditions.
  • In contrast, another participant expresses skepticism about theoretical limits at low frequencies.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the limits of bandwidth in space, particularly concerning the effects of EM radiation and the implications of quantum mechanics. The discussion remains unresolved, with no consensus reached on the specific bandwidth of space or the validity of certain claims.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight various assumptions, such as the conditions under which bandwidth might be measured and the influence of local vacuum conditions on high-frequency interactions. The discussion also reflects uncertainty regarding the relationship between EM fields and spacetime curvature.

.physics
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Bandwidth of space!

Can anyone tell me what might be the bandwidth of a m3 of space or air.
As we can tell the b/w of Cu wire is in MBps , ethernet cables in GBps and that of optical fibre is around TBps ; is there any way to find out or any formula to calculate the threshold capacity of the space or wireless medium for holding various data in EM-waves of various frequencies.

We all know that in a single room we can tune into 100s of short waves, AMs, FMs using a radio. In the same room we may use mobiles of different operators . Similarly in a same place we may use satellite disk to capture numerous TV stations and many more communication devices. So it means that the same room physically contains em-waves in thousands of number- we can separate them or tune into them using different electronic devices.

I am thus wondering if space has some limit to hold EM-waves. EM waves has always amazed me a lot and I still do not understand how do they actually propagate.

I have heard for many times that the b/w of space is near to infinite and as we see, it is so.

But some us may still think that there must be some critical point or wave threshold of the space after which it breaks down.

I am looking forward to having your opinions.
 
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If you were to put an abolutely rediculous amount of electromagnetic radiation in one place, it will turn into a black hole. So that's one limit.

Another limit would probably involve quantum effects (HUP).
 


James Leighe said:
If you were to put an abolutely rediculous amount of electromagnetic radiation in one place, it will turn into a black hole. So that's one limit.

Another limit would probably involve quantum effects (HUP).

That was one interesting point you made. So, do you have any idea about what may be the reasonable B/W of 1 m3 of space or do you think there could be some formula to calculate it?
 


.physics said:
That was one interesting point you made. So, do you have any idea about what may be the reasonable B/W of 1 m3 of space or do you think there could be some formula to calculate it?

I'll give it a shot over the weekend, should be fun!
 


https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=196160
Been there, check the papers in post #2
Bandwidth is not an entirely accurate term in this case
Fundamentally there are only 2 analogues:
Storage capacity -> Volume of space
Processing power -> Energy of system(what you are looking for - ability to move information at speed)
 


The antennae of the receivers/transmiters are the biggest hindrance of the b/w. Also, EM radiation cannot create black holes.
 


Matrix, way to kill my fun.

Dickfore said:
Also, EM radiation cannot create black holes.
Are you SURE about that?
 


James Leighe said:
Are you SURE about that?

No, but all I know is that EM fields do not contribute to the scalar curvature of spacetime because the trace of the stress-energy tensor is zero for them.
 


Dickfore said:
No, but all I know is that EM fields do not contribute to the scalar curvature of spacetime because the trace of the stress-energy tensor is zero for them.

Are you sure about THAT?

EDIT: Even if that was true think photon-photon particle production.
 
  • #10


James Leighe said:
Are you sure about THAT?

EDIT: Even if that was true think photon-photon particle production.

To be perfectly honest, I don't know and I don't feel like hijacking his thread.
 
  • #11


Even if there was some meaningful answer to the question 'how much data can air hold', determining the bandwidth would still require the air (or something) to be moving.
 
  • #12


.physics said:
I am looking forward to having your opinions.

In the high frequency end, when photon energy and density are insanely high, it is believed that colliding photons may produce pairs. Since vacuum cannot be perfect, stray atoms can allow pair production by a single photon. So the limit to this end would depend on local vacuum conditions (the kind of atoms and their numbers).

In the low frequency end, I don't believe there are any theoretical limits.
 

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