Beware Fake History

[Hornbein]

Youtube now sports history that is entirely fictional. An example is this.

It is easy to detect because the story isn't believable and there is no corroboration anywhere, but the superficial plausibility and wealth of phony detail fools most people. I have also seen a falsified mountain climbing adventure and a fake band whose music is excellent but images are AI synthesized and somehow the band has never appeared on a stage anywhere. The music seems to have fooled everyone. Well, the fakes are only going to improve -- it would be easy to provide a phony Wikipedia page and other pseudo online presence -- so surely this is here to stay.

I have mixed feelings about it. Mountain climbing adventures and music are for me just entertainment so what difference does it make whether it's fictional? But somehow I don't like these frauds.

 

[PeroK]

I know we have to avoid specific politics on here, but AI is developing at a time when politics generally is losing all sense of truth and humanity's common cause. I'm not the only one who sees parallels with the 1930's. We have the worst human beings rising to the top and gaining ever more wealth, power and media influence. Once they have the full power of AI, it's difficult to see anything other than a dystopian future.

That said, even without AI, the future is looking very bleak indeed. All AI might do is hasten the endgame.

 

[Hornbein]

The western world has moved post truth.

 

[PeroK]

The western world has moved post truth.

I believe we are not there yet, but not enough people or organisations are prepared to fight the post-truth narrative. I openly admit that I don't fully understand what's going on. I hope I'm wrong, but I feel like too many people are in denial about what's happening and how quickly it's happening.

That said, a genuine problem is that the alternative (opposition, if you like) is too fragmented. I'll not reference the specifics, but I feel like there are several key issues which seem to divide people into opposite, irreconcilable camps. I can't say any more without getting into the specifics.

 

[DaveC426913]

Well, the fakes are only going to improve -- it would be easy to provide a phony Wikipedia page and other pseudo online presence -- so surely this is here to stay.

This may be naive and/or outdated on my part but I believe wiki is still very human-driven. Additions and edits may get posted but they last a very short time before being corrected or removed.

 

[PeroK]

This may be naive and/or outdated on my part but I believe wiki is still very human-driven. Additions and edits may get posted but they last a very short time before being corrected or removed.

Elon Musk has launched Grokipedia, as a rival to Wikipedia, which will be his own version of the truth!

Which is very much my point that a collaborative consensus is or may be being replaced by the truth according to the world's richest man.

 

[256bits]

I bet this part of early 1900's was not covered in class.
Rise of the Automatons

 

[DaveC426913]

... his own version of the truth!

Ah yes. The Return of the Revenge of the Alternative Fact: the Sequel.

 

[Astronuc]

Another example of AI-generated 'historical fiction', where facts or factual information are blended into a fictional narrative.

History Post in thread 'For WW2 buffs!'

Oct 21, 2025

An interesting story - How One Cook's "INSANE" Idea Stopped U-Boats From Acoustically Detecting Convoys



The story apparently involves "historical fiction" by combining historical facts interwoven into a fictional narrative. WWII Rising Stories appear to be mostly fictional.

How this content was made
Altered or synthetic content
Sound or visuals were significantly edited or digitally generated.

The disclaimer/caveat indicates the video is generated by AI.

Some of the persons mentioned in the video are actual people.

Vice-Admiral Sir Peter William Gretton...

• Astronuc

• 

From my post in Random Thoughts 7

If one listens to the narrative, one hears mention of Convoy HX 229, which is an actual convoy, and reference to German (Kriegsmarine) U-boat U758, which is an actual submarine that attacked Convoy HX 229.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convoys_HX_229/SC_122#Convoy_HX_229
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_submarine_U-758#Second_patrol

In the beginning of the video, one hears reference to merchant ship SS William Eustis (an actual ship) on which Thomas (Tommy) Patrick Lawson is supposedly serving as cook. SS William Eustis was part of HX 229, and it was hit by a torpedo from Kriegsmarine U435 on 22 March 1943.

At 01.22 hours on 17 March 1943 the William Eustis (Master Cecil Desmond) in station #22 of convoy HX-229 was hit on the starboard side by one of two FAT torpedoes from U-435, the other missed by 200 feet. The torpedo struck in the #2 hold, blew of the hatch covers of #2 and #3 holds, flooded the hold and a split became visible on the starboard side 20 feet from the hold to the bridge. The eight officers, 34 crewmen and 30 armed guards (the ship was armed with one 5in, one 3in and eight 20mm guns) abandoned ship after 30 minutes in one lifeboat and four rafts because heavy weather had damaged four of the boats and another was damaged by the explosion. The survivors were picked up after four hours by HMS Volunteer (D 71) (LtCdr G.J. Luther, RN), which scuttled the wreck by gunfire and depth charges and landed the men at Liverpool on 22 March.

https://uboat.net/allies/merchants/ship/2796.html

There was a Professor Patrick Blackett, but it is not clear that he did research in underwater acoustics; he did serve in the Royal Navy during WWI.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Blackett#Early_life_and_education
During WWII, Blakcett worked with experimental physicist Evan James Williams to address merchant convoy survivability and the U-boat menace.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Blackett#World_War_II_and_operational_research

Early on in World War 2 Blackett asked Williams to join RAE Farnborough to apply his imaginative physical mind to the problem of the U-boat menace. One of the results was the MDS (magnetic detection of submarines) system which was taken up with enthusiasm by US scientists when presented to them by Sir Henry Tizard in 1940. In 1941 Williams joined Blackett at the newly formed Operational Research Section at the Admiralty's Coastal Command where they "essentially invented" operational research; Williams was director of research from 1941 to 1942, scientific adviser to the Navy on methods of combating submarines from 1943 to 1944, then assistant director of research in the Navy from 1944 to 1945.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evan_James_Williams

Rear-Admiral Leonard Murray is an actual person
https://www.canada.ca/en/navy/corporate/history-heritage/canadian-naval-heroes/leonard-murray.html

In May 1941 Murray was put in charge of the Newfoundland Escort Force (NEF), part of the Allied convoy system during the Battle of the Atlantic. Created in response to the movement of German U-boats into the western Atlantic Ocean, the NEF was instituted to cover the convoy escort gap that existed between the local convoy escort in Canada and the United Kingdom.
. . .
Murray would command the NEF until 1943 when he was appointed Commanding Officer Atlantic Coast and in April 1943 as Commander-in-Chief Canadian North West Atlantic (CNWA) and Deputy Commander U.S. Task Force 24.

Edit/update: Another historical individual mentioned in the video is Captain Peter Gretton. He did command the escort with the Convoy OSN 5 as mentioned in the video.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Gretton#Escort_Group_B7

From 22 April 1943 to 6 May 1943, Commander Gretton led Escort Group B7 in covering Convoy ONS 5, considered to be the turning point of the Battle of the Atlantic. On the return voyage Commander Gretton and Escort Group B7 successfully covered Convoy SC 130, with no losses to enemy action and an on-time arrival that allowed his wedding to happen as scheduled.

Success had nothing to do with acoustic damping/dampening. Convoy ONS 5 departed Liverpool on 21 April 1943 (one month after the William Eustis was torpedoed and sunk) and would arrive in Halifax three weeks later on 12 May.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convoy_ONS_5

 

[DaveC426913]

Thanks, yeah. I have suspected this for quite some time. Good to have it objectively confirmed.
Whenever I see one of these pseudo-historical stories, I check Wiki to see if the events have any basis in fact, and then ignore the narrative, which obviously must have been retconned.

What keeps me awake at night is the sheer number of Likes and comments these types of posts garner. There are a LOT of people that seem to take everything they read on social media as fact.

 

[256bits]

There is a proliferation of AI fake content on contemporary world events.

Similar to the fake news of the first presidential election of Trump where people began to realize there was such a thing. Misinformation ( unintentional untruths and opinion based, along with some disinformation ), was always present. Now with the easy to set up AI sites and tools, information can be presented as having actually occurred. Even if a disclaimer is present, dissemination of mainly disinformation ( deliberate untruths and severely biased opinions ) by bad actors on issues presently taking place around the world is more easy than ever.
https://www.mcafee.com/blogs/intern...g-headlines-the-ai-powered-rise-of-fake-news/
https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/artificial-intelligence-misinformation-google-1.7217275

With regards to fake history, in the years to come historians will be hard pressed to be able to reliably discern current affairs truths from fakery. Taking the picture of Katy Perry from the CBC article, it would appear that she was at the Meta Gala event rather than not; her actions as a bad actor posting the fake picture achieves its goal.
( Poor Spock of the future may not be able to set world events correctly from the changes brought about by McCoy's time travel if he has to sift through endless articles at odds with each other with what actually happened )

 

[DaveC426913]

With regards to fake history, in the years to come historians will be hard pressed to be able to reliably discern current affairs truths from fakery.

Ironic. I'd always assumed the era of historical ambiguity would come to an end once we started keeping indelible records of events. But the tables have flipped. Now, instead of ambiguity because of too few records, we have ambiguity because of too many records (many of which are fake).

 

[Astronuc]

Ironic. I'd always assumed the era of historical ambiguity would come to an end once we started keeping indelible records of events. But the tables have flipped. Now, instead of ambiguity because of too few records, we have ambiguity because of too many records (many of which are fake).

The internet has connected the public with experts and has expanded the public domain, e.g., Wikipeida. However, concurrently, the internet has given the same access to bad actors, who are motivated for malicious activities. AI has exacerbated such misconduct in the public domain.

We now see 'influencers' who spread false information for nefarious purposes, and who are possibly compensated for such purposes. Influencers create videos with false information about nutrition or health care, and then they offer an alternative.

I've seen videos debunking claims by folks who are pushing food 'supplements' for better health, including weight loss, or some medial condition. The motivation is to sell ineffective supplements.

Recent history is fairly well documented, but going further back, the documentation is less reliable, and one must be diligent with respect to verification using independent or reliable sources of well-established historians. When listening to biographies of folks before 1600s, one has to consider the source. Going back to Medieval times and earlier, one has to understand the perspective(s) of the authors, who might generate a biased biography (hagiography).