Big Freeze: Resolving the Universe's End?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of the "big freeze" as a potential end scenario for the universe, exploring its viability in light of quantum mechanics and the behavior of subatomic particles. Participants examine the implications of virtual particles, Hawking radiation, and the interplay between these theories.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how the big freeze can be viable given that quantum mechanics suggests subatomic particles constantly pop in and out of existence, implying that hydrogen atoms may never cease to exist.
  • Another participant explains that virtual particles are created and destroyed constantly, with a net result of zero, and they do not last long enough to gravitationally interact.
  • There is a repeated inquiry about the process of Hawking radiation and its implications for the production of atoms, suggesting confusion about the limits of atom production in the universe.
  • Some participants challenge assumptions about quantum mechanics and string theory, noting that quantum mechanics does not incorporate extra dimensions, which are a feature of string theory.
  • It is mentioned that while Hawking radiation produces particles, it also reduces the mass of black holes, leading to the eventual evaporation of all black holes and the cessation of Hawking radiation over time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the compatibility of the big freeze and quantum mechanics, with no consensus reached on how these theories interact or their implications for the universe's fate.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the nature of quantum mechanics and string theory are challenged, but the discussion does not resolve these complexities or clarify the definitions involved.

Galactic explosion
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How can the big freeze be a viable option for the end of the universe?

The big freeze suggests that one day the universe will expand to such a large size that stars will fuse all the existing hydrogen in the universe and just leave black holes and other remnants behind, eventually reaching maximum entropy, resulting in a cold and dark universe.

But quantum mechanics states that subatomic particles always pop in and out of existence due to vibrating strings through 11-dimensional hyperspace. The fact of that alone should tell us that hydrogen atoms will NEVER cease to exist, since they are just made up of a simple combination of protons, neutrons and electrons, which are always being created.

I'm very confused with this. Both theories seem to contradict each other, yet most scientists are at general consensus with each of them. Dr. Michio Kaku, Co-founder of m-theory even agrees with the big freeze.
 
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Virtual particles are being created and destroyed constantly. They pop into existence as opposite pairs, then immediately annihilate. The net result is zero. They don't stick around long enough to gravitationally interact.
 
DaveC426913 said:
Virtual particles are being created and destroyed constantly. They pop into existence as opposite pairs, then immediately annihilate. The net result is zero. They don't stick around long enough to gravitationally interact.

Yes, but what about virtual particles becoming real through a process called "Hawking radiation"? I just don't understand how there can ever be a limit to the production of atoms, otherwise our universe would not exist in the first place. Unless I do not understand the whole concept, then please explain.
 
Galactic explosion said:
Yes, but what about virtual particles becoming real through a process called "Hawking radiation"? I just don't understand how there can ever be a limit to the production of atoms, otherwise our universe would not exist in the first place. Unless I do not understand the whole concept, then please explain.

Some of your assumptions are wrong. Have a look at this[/PLAIN] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang_nucleosynthesis[/URL]
 
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Galactic explosion said:
But quantum mechanics states that subatomic particles always pop in and out of existence due to vibrating strings through 11-dimensional hyperspace.

Quantum Mechanics does not use extra dimensions. This sounds like string theory, which isn't an accepted theory at the moment due to a lack of clear evidence supporting it. QM uses the standard 3 spatial and 1 time dimensions we're all used to.

Galactic explosion said:
Yes, but what about virtual particles becoming real through a process called "Hawking radiation"? I just don't understand how there can ever be a limit to the production of atoms, otherwise our universe would not exist in the first place. Unless I do not understand the whole concept, then please explain.

Hawking radiation produces particles, but reduces the mass of the black hole in the process. After a very long time all black holes in the universe will evaporate and there will no longer be any hawking radiation.
 

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