Biggest Danger to the Enviroment?

[Greg Bernhardt]

Provide one activity nature and humans do that posses the most threat to the environment?

My picks:

Nature: Volcanos
Humans: non-reinforcement of environmental laws (I guess that is indirect)

 

[Sunfist]

I think Earthquakes beat Volcanos
Nuklear weapons or nothing for humans. (It depends on scale. Humans could cause some major short-term damage to the environment of Earth, but 2 trillion years from now things would be fine again.)

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

*Nature*
Large, I mean HUGE, Meteor strike.

*Human*
Continue to generate all of the heat that we are currently generating, and adding more to that number every-single-day!

 

[FZ+]

Isn't it a bit of a misnomer to say that nature can threaten the environment? We need to add the qualifier that we are talking about the present evironment, or the human friendly environment.

As for threat, are we talking impact, or probability?

Nature:
Impact: Sun going nova.
Probability: Drastic climate change.

"Man":
Impact: Nuclear war.
Probability: Greenhouse effect.

 

[Tsu]

Posted by FZ+
Nature:
Impact: Sun going nova.
Probability: Drastic climate change.

My guess is our sunrises and sunsets wouldn't be NEAR as pretty, either.

 

[nucleartear]

Sorry for this out-topic question, but, about the heating...

Since we are at inter-glacial age, could some facts of the global-heating be explained by a no-human reason?

The last glacial-age finished "only" 10,000 years ago, so... maybe the defrosting of some of eternal snows (like at Kilimanharo), or the growing of some deserts (like Sahara) is a kind of delayed effect of this natural change...

I have hear people saying that this last temperature-record-summer is an effect of the global-heating, but, when I see the newspaper, they say "Since the year 18## we haven't registered temperatures like these"... that minds at the year 18## we had another record on temperature! and in that year it could not be due to the human-global-heating...

I'm not trying to say that the Humanity are free of sin, but maybe we are not so powerfull as we think and we don't have enought power for the total-destruction-of-Nature...

About the nuclear power, maybe there are only 100 nuclear bombs in good conditions around the world, and the politicians and the military have invented the numbers... (well, now we can see the best army of the world cannot confront the expenses of a military occupation, so maybe the armies of the world are not so powefull as we think)

 

[Ivan Seeking]

For nature: Changes in the sun's intensity.

For humans: Reproduction.

 

[KillaMarcilla]

Man, I was pretty convinced that people will always be fine and the environment won't get totally screwed up, but I was reading a biology textbook earlier today and it sounds like we're screwing things up pretty nicely

All sorts of cropland is being destroyed by overusing it and not letting salts drain out of the soil, underground water supplies are being depleted faster than they're regenerating themselves, acid rain is harming fish populations, petroleum supplies are running out and won't be there to help humanity bootstrap itself back up if there's a catastrophic collapse of civilization, and by 2010 there won't be any untouched rainforests left except for a few small tracts..

Even just that last part is really vicious, considering all the possible advances in medicine and biology in general that could come from studying the rainforests

I mean, I'm sure that humanity doesn't presently have the power to prevent the Earth from still being stocked with all sorts of life when the sun explodes four billion years from now, but I'm also pretty sure that we'll be able to cause plenty of trouble for ourselves, and maybe eventually we'll warp enough of the biosphere that only a thousandth of the people we have now will be able to live here afterward

 

[Phobos]

Originally posted by Sunfist
Humans could cause some major short-term damage to the environment of Earth, but 2 trillion years from now things would be fine again.)

Note: The sun only has about 5 billion years of fuel left. Plus, as it ages, it will grow hotter so that in perhaps less than 1 billion years, it will be too much for us (at least, in our current form).

 

[Phobos]

Originally posted by FZ+
Isn't it a bit of a misnomer to say that nature can threaten the environment? We need to add the qualifier that we are talking about the present evironment, or the human friendly environment.

Excellent point.

Impact: Sun going nova.

Note: Our sun will neither go "nova" or "supernova" (which are very different things by the way). It will swell up into a "red giant" (perhaps engulfing the Earth) and then shrink down to a "white dwarf".

A nova is a star that suddenly brightens...usually by the accretion of a lot of new matter. A supernova is a larger that explodes at the ends of its "life"...and its remaining core collapses into either a neutron star or a black hole (depending on the mass).

 

[Mentat]

Well, I agree that the death of our sun is a powerful threat. However, our moon is said to be moving farther and farther away from us, and at the same time bulging out Earth's equator. So, I'd say that the moon is another potential threat (even though it has been so useful to us (humans) in the past).

As far as humans go, I'd say the biggest threat is probably war - nuclear or otherwise.

 

[Grakhul]

What are your opinions on the statement that, the civilized world is the biggest threat to the environment, in that most polution and byproducts come from manufacturing and production. These byproducts destroy the environment. Third world countries produce some harmful agents but not in the amount that civilized countries do.

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by nucleartear
About the nuclear power, maybe there are only 100 nuclear bombs in good conditions around the world, and the politicians and the military have invented the numbers...

HUH? try like seven thousand, and more, in reserves, and storages etc. etc.

And when I mentioned "heating", I do not mean the greenhouse effect, I mean the actual and real heat that is generated every single day by human activities, compounded as to add to the greenhouse effect. (run your car, turn on the lights, take a shower, cook dinner, all that HEAT!)

 

[nucleartear]

Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
HUH? try like seven thousand, and more, in reserves, and storages etc. etc.

Have u ever seen them?

Remember that the communists used false inter-continental missiles in their military parades in order to scare their enemies... if they have deceived to us once, they can do it another time!

Don't be so ingenuous! It's an ancient political strategy to seem more powerfull that you are in fact! If USA had only 50 A-bombs, do you think they would be sincere with North-Korea or Iran?? They will tell that they have 10000! and if they have 10000, they will tell that they have 20000!...

And... (since there is a nuclear arms forum I invite to you to continue this discussion there at https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5470)

Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons And when I mentioned "heating", I do not mean the greenhouse effect, I mean the actual and real heat that is generated every single day by human activities, compounded as to add to the greenhouse effect. (run your car, turn on the lights, take a shower, cook dinner, all that HEAT!) [/B]

Sorry, can you read my post and tell me if I have said "greenhouse effect"? I haven't... In fact, I say "global-heating", and this concept envolve all reasons that make this effect... and, since three people have talked about climate changes, I posted that... that was not a reply only to you... (I don't undestand why you are so ugly with me sniff, sniff)

As I have said, I don't try to free us of all our failures, but I think we must to be less sensationalists and more objectives... Are we making the climate change? Maybe not. Are we making the climate change goes faster? Maybe yes...

 

[FZ+]

Since we are at inter-glacial age, could some facts of the global-heating be explained by a no-human reason?

Yes and no. Yes, in that naturally the Earth may be getting hotter. No for that natural being the dominant factor.

If we look at ice core records and amazon rainforest growth data, we can see that the rate of change of the climate is abnormally fast. In fact, evidence shows that natural factors etc are currently working to damp down the effect from greenhouse gases, and this effect will not last much longer.

Global heating is probably a bad word, as though on average we may see an increase in temperature, what we are in fact seeing is a change in the weather system of the world. Places like the UK would actually get colder due to disrupted ocean currents. Basically, as weather is a chaotic system, we should expect to see more unpredictable extremes of temperature, such as the recent heatwaves.

As far as I know, of course.

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by nucleartear
... (I don't undestand why you are so ugly with me sniff, sniff)

As I have said, I don't try to free us of all our failures, but I think we must to be less sensationalists and more objectives...

Can you see how your second statement is in contradiction to your first statement?, inasmuch as you seem to have decided that I was ugly with you, apparently based upon nothing more then me clarifieing my point.

As for the nukes. If I find the time, I will find the link to the previous discourse, on that topic, in the PF forums, and link that one for you.

EDIT SP and, look down, the link!

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

"How many nukes..."
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=2452"

 

[nucleartear]

Originally posted by FZ+
Yes and no. Yes, in that naturally the Earth may be getting hotter. No for that natural being the dominant factor.

If we look at ice core records and amazon rainforest growth data, we can see that the rate of change of the climate is abnormally fast. In fact, evidence shows that natural factors etc are currently working to damp down the effect from greenhouse gases, and this effect will not last much longer.

Global heating is probably a bad word, as though on average we may see an increase in temperature, what we are in fact seeing is a change in the weather system of the world. Places like the UK would actually get colder due to disrupted ocean currents. Basically, as weather is a chaotic system, we should expect to see more unpredictable extremes of temperature, such as the recent heatwaves.

As far as I know, of course.

Since meteorology and paleontologic-meteorology are not very developed I read their data with care... We only have trustworthy data for the last century, and before the S.XIX some eventual points... At these points we can see the worst flood in the History of Europe was at S.XVII (some times bigger than the ones of the last summer) and the worst drought was at Middle Age (some years with drought, maybe be with highter temperatures than this summer)... that mind that the records of this last years are not History records... Maybe some time at the past we suffered another climate change like this one but it come back to the equilibrium state in few decades or centuries...

What I try to say is maybe the meteorology doesn't have enought theoretical basis to determine that only us are the problem...

But about species extinction I have nothing to say... we are doing it very bad... the rate of extinction now is biggest than the dinosaurs one... we are causing the 6th global extinction!... sometimes I feel a kind of shame of the human being...

Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
...inasmuch as you seem to have decided that I was ugly with you, apparently based upon nothing more then me clarifieing my point.

Sorry! Maybe I have had a linguistic problem! (english is not my commun language)

Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
As for the nukes. If I find the time, I will find the link to the previous discourse, on that topic, in the PF forums, and link that one for you.

Thanx! That's my first mounth here and I am not very up-to-date!

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

If you go and read the entire thread you'll find that the 7000, that I stated, is a misnomer, it's way more.

The reason why I had used the 7K figure is because it is one that I remembered from reading(s) on the recent SALT talks, wherein, the Presidents of America, and Russia, agreed to dismantle thousands of Weapons.

Since then, America has decided to Store the weapons, rather then dismantle them, which, economically, for a conservative representation of Government, is sort of contra-indicated as storing the 'entire weapon' is a greater long term cost then dismantling, and storing, only the remnant radioactive waste. (wastes tax dollars storing the entire Bomb!)

On the positive side it is an homage to Honesty in American, and Global Society, that the figures, that kat was able to come up with, are publically/generally available.

It is an Homage to the power of "Freedom of Speech" simply that we can all know this kind of "stuff".

 

[berty]

Man, I was pretty convinced that people will always be fine and the environment won't get totally screwed up, but I was reading a biology textbook earlier today and it sounds like we're screwing things up pretty nicely

All sorts of cropland is being destroyed by overusing it and not letting salts drain out of the soil, underground water supplies are being depleted faster than they're regenerating themselves, acid rain is harming fish populations, petroleum supplies are running out and won't be there to help humanity bootstrap itself back up if there's a catastrophic collapse of civilization, and by 2010 there won't be any untouched rainforests left except for a few small tracts..

Even just that last part is really vicious, considering all the possible advances in medicine and biology in general that could come from studying the rainforests

I mean, I'm sure that humanity doesn't presently have the power to prevent the Earth from still being stocked with all sorts of life when the sun explodes four billion years from now, but I'm also pretty sure that we'll be able to cause plenty of trouble for ourselves, and maybe eventually we'll warp enough of the biosphere that only a thousandth of the people we have now will be able to live here afterward

KillaMarcilla.
Don't believe everything you read, most of it is aimed at scaring you and ignores anything, which shows any positive effect.
Most of it doesn't stand up to close examination, especially the bit about running out of petrol! This has been forecast as about to happen since the first supplies were extracted!

 

[berty]

Bad according to whose viewpoint?

Nature (allowing for the fact that we are part of nature): Localised Super Nova or drifting too close to a black hole, even a very small one would be bad!

Us: All Nuclear weapons set off in one place at the same time.
Irriversable climate change either runaway heating or cooling (given that we are stupid enough to allow changes to occur without taking any remedial action whatsoever).

 

[Teo1]

Biggest danger? BAD VIBES

Nature:

Meteor, Earth-quake on a Newcuelar plant (President Bu's word), black hole appear and eat us, ozone bust up and atmosphere leave, ozone deplete to where rays kill us (except black people ha ha to racists! he he), moon fall on us, moon break apart, sun spot come out and fry us, sun blow up..

Man:

I worry (if I DO worry at all) that we invent some gravimetrictimebending machine and sit around going "isn't that neat!" like a bunch of idiots, and it then sucks the whole universe into it so we lose the fun 3 dimensions we have and become flat or mud or something.

People's racism escalates to where bio-weapons created to target one group of humans evolve are released and kill us all.

Other safe sources of fuel are found and just when we could all live a heavenly existence some meanies keep them quiet by dastardly means and keep us all in unsustainable energy resource wars and that makes this hell whether we survive it or not.. oh! That's what's happened!

 

[Atrayo]

Hello Greg Bernhardt,

Provide one activity nature and humans do that posses the most threat to the environment? ---Greg.

Last time i checked humanity is part of nature too and originated from this planet.

My picks:

Nature: Drought

Humans: Pollution in general.

-------

Also, about nuclear waste i think the US government may have devised a way to recycle it. It's probably their new form of ammunition for heavy weapons such as "depleted uranium". It's what's being used in the Middle East by: tanks, fighter jets & heliocopters, and probably ship turrets too.

Some even say it's what caused the first Gulf War syndrome back in 1991. Let's see this time around when troops return from the Middle East if it reappears. :shy:

 

[BobG]

Nature: Volcanoes or methane releases from the sea floor. Both of these release chemicals into the atmosphere that have a drastic effect on life. Most other natural disasters (drought, fire, flood, major storms, etc.) are almost a cyclic redistribution of resources and is actually good for life in the long run (although not so good for those that can't migrate).

Human: Overpopulation. Most of the things that have made human life so successful have, at least so far, only pushed the natural limits for our species further into the future, not eliminated them. In other words, we may be increasing the pain of paying for short term success with little net gain (and maybe even a net loss) and we've had a drastic impact on other life that has to share our environment along the way.

 

[Dayle Record]

The biggest danger to our environment, is what we don't know, vs the miniscule amount we do know; and our propensity for macro activity with incalculable effect. The next biggest danger to our environment is our disrespect for the web of life, and our part in it, and theocratic insistance of human right to influence this web of life as it pleases us to do so. Currently we are channeling the ionosphere and electromagnetic solar weather, to make things better for satellites. We do not have the capacity to know the full energetic relationship between the sun and the earth, yet for convenience sake, we are disrupting it. This kind of stuff reminds me of drunks playing cards in the afternoon, and shooting at flies with handguns. The outcome is predictible, not specific, but generally...

 

[Allah]

Omg

By far, the biggest natural threat to the Earth is either the BIG CRUNCH or Perhaps heat death. Maybe even TIME ITSELF?

For Humans, nothing, there is no possible way that we could completely wipe out all life (not even human life) on the planet. Sure we could make other humans miserable or worse, but the planet will live on and humans will rebuild.

OMG,
"disrespect for the web of life" what the heck have you been smoking man? Come back to reality. If you were to have respect for the web of life, then you would still be living in the jungle. Therefore, you are a hypocrite my friend DAYLE RECORD.