Binghamton Attack: 13 Killed in New York Hostage Situation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a recent hostage situation in New York that resulted in multiple fatalities. Participants explore various aspects of the incident, including potential motives, the implications of gun access, and comparisons to other mass shootings. The conversation touches on themes of race, mental health, and societal responses to gun violence.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants speculate on the motives of the gunman, suggesting personal reasons rather than a racially motivated attack.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of gun access in the U.S. and its relation to mass shootings, with some arguing that easy access to firearms contributes to the frequency of such incidents.
  • Participants express differing views on whether the attack could be classified as terrorism, with some suggesting it may be a retaliatory act while others see it as an isolated incident driven by personal issues.
  • Concerns are raised about the mental health system and its role in preventing gun violence, with suggestions that better funding and regulations could help mitigate risks.
  • Some participants question the logic behind the actions of mass shooters, suggesting that they may not be acting rationally.
  • There is a recurring theme of comparing the frequency of mass shootings in the U.S. to incidents in other countries, with some participants advocating for a reevaluation of gun laws based on these comparisons.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion features multiple competing views regarding the motives behind the attack, the role of race, and the effectiveness of current gun laws. Participants do not reach a consensus on these issues, and the conversation remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the classification of the attack and the motivations behind it. There are also unresolved discussions about the implications of gun laws and mental health care in relation to mass shootings.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those exploring the social implications of gun violence, mental health issues, and the complexities surrounding mass shootings in the U.S.

rootX
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7982444.stm

A gunman has killed 13 people after taking dozens hostage in the US state of New York.

First, I thought it's a terrorist attack .. and then after reading that immigrants were attacked, I thought it must be some white supremacist or racist skinhead, and was bit surprised that it was an Asian (who must have his own personal reasons/motives and highly unlikely that it was an terrorist or racists attack IMHO).

But regardless of who killed people for whatever reason, it's a really sad news.

March 2009: A gunman kills a total of 11 people in a series of shootings southern Alabama
Dec 2008: A gunman dressed as Santa Claus kills nine people and himself on Christmas Eve in LA
Sept 2008: Six people die in a series of shootings in the north-west of Washington state
June 2008: A worker at a plastics plant in Kentucky kills five people before killing himself
Apr 2007: 32 people and the gunman die at the Virginia Tech campus

I think US must need to think about these accidents that mostly happen randomly. They are no less dangerous than terrorists attacks.
 
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rootX said:
I think US must need to think about these accidents that mostly happen randomly. They are no less dangerous than terrorists attacks.

But as long as there is fairly easy access to guns, and not a lot of enthusiasm for raising money (i.e., taxes) to care for the mentally ill (or keep them from buying guns at, say, gun shows), it's inevitable that this will happen from time to time, IMO.
 
rootX said:
...and was bit surprised that it was an Asian (who must have his own personal reasons/motives and highly unlikely that it was an terrorist or racists attack IMHO).

Asians can't be racist?
 
Yah saying this is race motivated is pretty presumptuous. He may not have even had a problem with the agency the building housed for all we know, he may have been just insane and his victims were just an unfortunate random selection.
 
Moonbear said:
Asians can't be racist?

If this guy attacked some non Asian immigrants in Asia then most likely it would be a racist attack. I was just trying to find what caused this accident while reading the article and those were the things that came to my mind.

I don't think race had anything to do in here.
 
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Pengwuino said:
just an unfortunate random selection.

It doesn't look like a random selection unless he was there giving the test and found it too challenging etc :rolleyes:
 
rootX said:
It doesn't look like a random selection unless he was there giving the test and found it too challenging etc :rolleyes:

Are you being serious? People that walk into government buildings and open fire aren't usually thinking logically in the first place...
 
Investigators said they had yet to establish a motive for the massacre, which was at least the fifth deadly mass shooting in the U.S. in the past month alone.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090403/ap_on_re_us/hostage_shooting

I'm not sure if that means ranked fifth, or was the next after the forth one.

Five mass shootings in a month. That's five too many.
 
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This might well be a terrorist attack, rather than the "ordinary" massacre perpetrated by the social misfit and loner driven by entirely private urges.

An organization has already taken up "responsibility" for this action as a retaliative strike, something that should tell you this tragic event might belong to a very different category than, say, school shootings.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,512537,00.html

Of course, as is related, this might be a very distasteful publicity stunt from the Taliban chief in question.
 
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  • #10
arildno said:
Of course, as is related, this might be a very distasteful publicity stunt from the Taliban chief in question.

They must have something else in their minds other than publicity if it is correct. It looks like a really clever attack.
 
  • #11
rootX said:
I think US must need to think about these accidents that mostly happen randomly. They are no less dangerous than terrorists attacks.
Overlay a map of the US onto all of Europe. That will put the number of reports into a better perspective. Also, we have guns, easier to kill many people at once. But, that seems to be what the majority of people want here.
 
  • #12
Evo said:
Overlay a map of the US onto all of Europe. That will put the number of reports into a better perspective. Also, we have guns, easier to kill many people at once. But, that seems to be what the majority of people want here.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090311/ap_on_re_eu/eu_europe_gun_laws_1

• In Virginia, where a student killed 32 people at Virginia Tech in 2007 before committing suicide April 16, 2007, the governor signed an executive order requiring that anyone ordered by a court to get mental health treatment be added to a database of people barred from buying guns.

I think it's a good move.

lisab said:
But as long as there is fairly easy access to guns, and not a lot of enthusiasm for raising money (i.e., taxes) to care for the mentally ill (or keep them from buying guns at, say, gun shows), it's inevitable that this will happen from time to time, IMO.

Above move should help IMO.
 
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  • #13
Three more officers of the Pittsburgh police were just shot and killed in a standoff with it gunman :/
 
  • #14
lisab said:
But as long as there is fairly easy access to guns, and not a lot of enthusiasm for raising money (i.e., taxes) to care for the mentally ill (or keep them from buying guns at, say, gun shows), it's inevitable that this will happen from time to time, IMO.

FYI, people don't have to go to gun shows to buy a gun without going through a criminal/mental health check. I could sell a gun to my neighbor no questions asked, for example. A gun show is just a flea market where someone like myself could go to sell my guns to others. Anti-gun folks make gun shows out to be a "loop-hole" when it's not, it's just a place where gun owners go and try to make a buck. If you are technically a "business" then you have to have a dealers license that requires you to go through the security checks. If there were a law passed it would have to outlaw the private sale of firearms.
 
  • #15
People are going on shooting sprees a lot lately. It's alarming. One of my biggest questions is "why isn't anyone shooting back!". Because, most of these places are "gun-free" zones where you are basically defenseless target in a lunatics shooting gallery.
 
  • #16
Evo said:
Overlay a map of the US onto all of Europe. That will put the number of reports into a better perspective.

Overly a map of the US onto half of Europe, and that will put the number of reports in better perspective.
I thought it was only a matter of time before a thread was started on this, and an even shorter matter of time before we started discussing firearms laws... again (there we go.. see the post above).
 
  • #17
cristo said:
Overly a map of the US onto half of Europe, and that will put the number of reports in better perspective.
On my map the US should cover it, don't forget we have Alaska. :wink: We can leave Alaska off if we leave the Norweedish countries off.

http://www.mapsofworld.com/images/world-map.jpg
 
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  • #18
Evo said:
On my map the US should cover it, don't forget we have Alaska. :wink: We can leave Alaska off if we leave the Norweedish countries off.

http://www.mapsofworld.com/images/world-map.jpg

I was thinking more population size, really!
 
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  • #19
  • #20
mbisCool said:
Three more officers of the Pittsburgh police were just shot and killed in a standoff with it gunman :/

Supposedly (based on news reports) the guy in Pittsburgh thought Obama was going to take away his AK-47...(I hope this isn't a trend).

I lived in Pittsburgh for about 6 years. I can assure everyone, gun ownership will NEVER be repealed there...too many deer hunters (the "Deer Hunter" was actually filmed in the local suburb of Clairton). One of the more popular venues to purchase weapons in Pittsburgh is at local "gun shows". These events are often hosted in fire halls (to raise money) and involve all day drinking...always a good mix.

Hopefully, assault rifles WILL be reconsidered now.

However, there is a far bigger problem in Pittsburgh. There are too many unstable people holding carry permits (for concealed hand guns) in Allegheny county...it's well known and has been a problem for a long time.

Worse yet, the law states that the person must keep the weapon in their possession. This means a bar/tavern/stadium/grocery store/WalMart (for instance) with a policy of "No Firearms" can not require a person to leave their weapon in a vehicle...it's against the law.

I absolutely agree there should be an overlay of mental competency...and I'd add DUI and domestic abuse filters in the consideration of gun licensing.
 
  • #21
The way I look at it, as long as there are lunatics running around shooting indiscriminately, I want to be able to defend myself.

WhoWee, I don't think DUI's are related to domestic violence. Domestic violence does disqualify you (of course) from having a concealed permit in my state, but I don't see how having a DUI should disqualify a person from carrying.
 
  • #22
drankin said:
The way I look at it, as long as there are lunatics running around shooting indiscriminately, I want to be able to defend myself.

Please, change the record. Every time an incident like this in the OP is brought up here at PF, you chime in with the same comments, which then end up with the thread being locked. How about you stick to discussing the actual incident in an attempt to stop this happening for once?
 
  • #23
cristo said:
Please, change the record. Every time an incident like this in the OP is brought up here at PF, you chime in with the same comments, which then end up with the thread being locked. How about you stick to discussing the actual incident in an attempt to stop this happening for once?

I simply respond to previous posts. How about you stick to the subjects we are discussing and not tell me how to post? Eh? I will always chime in when discussing subjects I am very familiar with, BTW. Comment? You are welcome to PM me.

Speculating, my first thought was that the gunmen may have wanted to prevent some particular immigrants from being nationalized. Those people being from area that were rivals from where ever the shooter was from. I could see this if they were from Burma.
 
  • #24
arildno said:
An organization has already taken up "responsibility" for this action as a retaliative strike, something that should tell you this tragic event might belong to a very different category than, say, school shootings.
.

Evo said:
Here is an update on the killer.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7256239&page=1

:confused:
First link in the arildno post says this was a terrorist attack but second link says this was another random attack.

Secondly, haven't they changed the headline?
From "not surprising" to a "hardworking worker"..?
 
  • #25
rootX said:
:confused:
First link in the arildno post says this was a terrorist attack but second link says this was another random attack.

Secondly, haven't they changed the headline?
From "not surprising" to a "hardworking worker"..?
Wow, they changed the article from no one being surprised that he was capable of this and saying he was violent, to almost painting the guy as a saint. The original title was "Gunman's actions not surprising to those close to him".
Binghamton Police Chief Joseph Zikuski said on Saturday no motive for the shooting had been determined, but he confirmed reports that Wong, who also went by the name Voong, had felt degraded by his inability to speak English and by a recent job loss.

"From the people close to him ... this action he took was not a surprise to them," Zikuski told a news conference.

"He felt degraded from his inability to speak English and he was upset about that," he added.

Actions Not a Total Shock
On Saturday, Zikuski also said a 1999 report filed with the state police revealed that Wong had been planning a bank robbery and was addicted to drugs. He also referred to a protective order against him related to a divorce in California, but did not provide additional details.

Wong had not shared his intentions with those close to him, but Zikuski said that to those who knew him well, Wong's behavior yesterday "wasn't a total shock."
 
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  • #26
The Pittsburgh shooter and the Binghamton shooter were both wearing body armor?

When you're strapping on body armor, you'd think you would begin to have second thoughts about what you're getting ready to do.
 
  • #27
Pittsburgh one looks like a complete idiot.

Edward Perkovic, who said he was close to Mr Poplawski, told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette how his friend had called him on his mobile phone during the incident, saying he had been shot in the leg and the chest.

Mr Perkovic said Mr Poplawski told him: "Eddie, I'm going to die today. Tell your family and friends I love them. This is probably the end."

Then there was a burst of gunfire and the call ended, Mr Perkovic said.

Another man who said he was a friend of Mr Poplawski, Aaron Vire, told the newspaper: "He said he'll be ready if there's ever an invasion of the United States and that he had stockpiled foods and guns for that eventuality."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7983894.stm
 
  • #28
rootX said:
Pittsburgh one looks like a complete idiot.

Yup, he sounds like a right nutter, or perhaps just a spoilt child who loved his guns a little too much and treated them like toys!

His friends said he had recently lost his job, and was worried that US President Barack Obama was about to ban guns.
 
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  • #29
Another today.

5 children, father die in murder-suicide

A father apparently shot to death five of his children, ages 7 to 16, at their mobile home and then killed himself near a casino miles away, police said Saturday.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090405/ap_on_re_us/children_slain
 
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  • #30
Look at the promised action by the Virginia state government for the Tech shootings evolving into inaction and furthermore to business as usual. Virginia prides itself with supplying guns to states up north, foisting tobacco onto developing nations and boasting the greatest per capita execution rate in the US.