Black holes and conversation of energy

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of black hole formation on the law of conservation of energy. Participants explore whether the transformation of matter into a black hole contradicts this fundamental law, considering various aspects of energy and mass in the context of black holes.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the formation of a black hole results in the destruction of matter, which they argue contradicts the law of conservation of energy.
  • Others propose that while matter appears to be "gone," it is actually transformed into a different state, potentially radiating energy and eventually returning to the universe.
  • A participant suggests that the mass of a black hole is not destroyed but rather changes form into a singularity, raising questions about the nature of this transformation and the preservation of quantum information.
  • There is mention of the analogy with atomic bombs, where mass is also transformed into energy, suggesting a parallel in the processes involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the transformation of matter into a black hole violates the conservation of energy. There is no consensus on the implications of black hole formation for this law, and multiple competing interpretations remain present.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the lack of a generally agreed theory regarding what occurs at the singularity of a black hole, highlighting the complexities and uncertainties surrounding the topic.

Oh the irony
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Alright, According to the law of Conversation of Energy states that, Energy in a system may take on various forms (e.g. kinetic, potential, heat, light). The law of conservation of energy states that energy may neither be created nor destroyed. Therefore the sum of all the energies in the system is a constant.

So, When a black hole is formed the compressed matter that has been crushed down to it's nuclei is destroyed and gone after the black hole itself is formed. Doesn't that contradict said law stated above?
 
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Oh the irony said:
So, When a black hole is formed the compressed matter that has been crushed down to it's nuclei is destroyed and gone after the black hole itself is formed. Doesn't that contradict said law stated above?
The black hole has a very large mass, equal to all the fallen energy content according to [itex]E=mc^{2}[/itex]
 
Yes, I understand that but what I'm saying is the mass that created it. When all that packet up matter goes further then the mass of a neutron star, down too the point that it's crushed down to litterly nothing. How can that be? It's destroyed and that violates that law.
 
When a black hole is formed the compressed matter that has been crushed down to it's nuclei is destroyed and gone after the black hole itself is formed.

No. By "gone" I assume you mean "destroyed forever" or "hidden forever" from our observation.
Neither is accurate. A simple answer is that black holes radiate energy and unless they are swallowing other energy faster than they are radiating, eventually shrink down to a tiny size. When that happens they get hotter, radiate more energy and it's believed end in a cataclysmic explosion. So the energy is hidden for a long long time and eventually returned to our universe as equivalent energy.

As I see humano just posted the mass remains as energy...yes...the mass is not literally destroyed, it's form is changed to a singularity...No one knows what's actually there...

When an atomic bomb is detonated mass is also "destroyed"...a small proportion changes form to energy...
 
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Oh the irony said:
Yes, I understand that but what I'm saying is the mass that created it. When all that packet up matter goes further then the mass of a neutron star, down too the point that it's crushed down to litterly nothing. How can that be? It's destroyed and that violates that law.

It's not literally nothing. It's a point of infinite density - more "something" than anything in our Universe. If quantum information is preserved somehow then the "point" probably has a finite, but very high density, that stores the information in a very compact form. But there's no generally agreed theory about what happens. General relativity merely predicts that for a certain concentration of mass there's nothing that can stop its self-collapse into that "infinitesimal" size.
 

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