Can Dark Energy Cause Deviations in Extremely Large Black Holes?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the potential effects of dark energy on extremely large black holes, particularly whether deviations from the expected relationship between a black hole's mass and its Schwarzschild radius could occur. Participants explore the implications of dark energy, modeled as a cosmological constant, on the mass and properties of black holes, including the possibility of super-extremal black holes or wormholes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that as dark energy density increases with the volume of a black hole, it could lead to a scenario where the mass required to maintain an event horizon exceeds expectations based on traditional models.
  • Another participant questions the applicability of a cosmological constant inside a black hole, arguing that its density remains constant regardless of volume changes.
  • There is a proposal that dark energy effects might allow for the existence of super-extremal black holes or wormholes, though this remains speculative.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the relationship between a black hole's Schwarzschild radius and mass, with one participant correcting an earlier statement about volume.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the role of dark energy within black holes, with no consensus reached on whether it can significantly alter the expected mass-radius relationship or the nature of black holes.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the challenges in discussing the volume of a black hole and the implications of dark energy density remaining constant over time, highlighting the complexity of the topic.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those exploring theoretical physics, particularly in the context of black hole physics and cosmology.

A Puzzlement
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Ordinarily a black hole’s Schwarzschild radius is linearly proportional to its mass.

However, wouldn’t there be a deviation from this rule for extremely large black holes? Suppose we assume dark energy is due to a cosmological constant, whose value is the same everywhere (including inside the black hole). Since the amount of dark energy inside the black hole grows as the cube of its radius, but the black hole’s own mass only grows linearly with radius, eventually we will get to a point where the amount of dark energy inside the hole is a significant fraction of it’s “regular” mass. But dark energy is repulsive, so in order to ensure we still have an event horizon, a black hole of a given radius would need to have more mass than we would expect it to. Presumably this would be the case with a black hole formed from all the matter in the observable universe. Is this correct?

Also, would dark energy effects allow very large black holes to be super-extremal (or wormholes)?
 
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A Puzzlement said:
Ordinarily a black hole’s Schwarzschild radius is linearly proportional to its volume.
Shouldn't be mass ?
 
Oops, I meant to say mass, not volume. My mistake.
 
A Puzzlement said:
Ordinarily a black hole’s Schwarzschild radius is linearly proportional to its volume.

However, wouldn’t there be a deviation from this rule for extremely large black holes? Suppose we assume dark energy is due to a cosmological constant, whose value is the same everywhere (including inside the black hole). Since the amount of dark energy inside the black hole grows as the cube of its radius, but the black hole’s own mass only grows linearly with radius, eventually we will get to a point where the amount of dark energy inside the hole is a significant fraction of it’s “regular” mass. But dark energy is repulsive, so in order to ensure we still have an event horizon, a black hole of a given radius would need to have more mass than we would expect it to. Presumably this would be the case with a black hole formed from all the matter in the observable universe. Is this correct?

Also, would dark energy effects allow very large black holes to be super-extremal (or wormholes)?

I guess I understand your idea, I don't think we can talk about a cosmological constant inside the black hole but let's assume we can, Even in that case the density of the cosmological constant will not change with time. Why? Because it is a rustic property of space-time, it doesn't depend on how you choose the volume of the region. Let us suppose with a box size ##a^3## and dark energy density ##ρ_Λ## as the reason as I described above even you increase the volume the density would be the same.

The other thing is it's hard to talk about a volume of a black hole.
@PeterDonis might be more helpful on this subject.
 

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