Brown Dwarf more massive than stars?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the characteristics and definitions of brown dwarfs in relation to stars, particularly whether brown dwarfs can be more massive than some stars and the implications of adding non-fusible materials like iron to them. The scope includes theoretical considerations of stellar and substellar objects, fusion processes, and the physical properties of brown dwarfs and stars.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether brown dwarfs can be more massive than certain stars, noting that brown dwarfs cannot sustain hydrogen fusion.
  • It is proposed that while brown dwarfs may be more massive than other brown dwarfs, they cannot exceed the mass of low-mass main sequence stars that are undergoing hydrogen fusion.
  • A distinction is made that brown dwarfs can fuse deuterium or lithium but not hydrogen, with specific mass thresholds cited (around 13x and 65x Jupiter mass, respectively).
  • Participants speculate on the effects of adding a high amount of non-fusible material, such as iron, to a brown dwarf and whether this would change its classification or trigger fusion.
  • One participant argues that if a brown dwarf were primarily composed of iron, it would resemble a white dwarf rather than a brown dwarf, and discusses the implications of metallicity on fusion processes.
  • There is a discussion about the hypothetical scenario of infusing iron into a star and its potential effects on fusion, with conflicting views on whether this would extinguish fusion or cause it to flare up.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the effects of iron on fusion processes, suggesting that the introduction of iron would not necessarily lead to a significant increase in core temperature or trigger hydrogen shell fusion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of mass and composition for brown dwarfs and stars, with no consensus reached on whether brown dwarfs can be more massive than stars or how the introduction of iron would affect fusion processes.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about the behavior of materials under extreme conditions and the definitions of stellar classifications, which remain unresolved.

Flatland
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Is it possible for some brown dwarves to be more massive than some stars?
 
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By definition Brown Dwarves are too low in mass to sustain hydrogen fusion. They (as stars) might be more massive than other brown dwarves, but not more massive than a low mass "star" that is main sequence and has happily burned off it's lithium and is in full hydrogen fusion.
 
A brown dwarf is a failed star - massive enough to fuse deuterium [around 13x Jupiter mass] or lithium [about 65x Jupiter mass], but, not massive enough to fuse hydrogen, which takes about 80x Jupiter mass.
 
What if it contained a high amount of non-fusible material (ex: iron)? Would it cease being a brown dwarf or would the hydrogen begin to fuse anyway?
 
If it is mostly iron, with little hydrogen, then it would bear more resemblance to a white dwarf, not brown.

To the contrary, it is claimed that the most massive brown dwarfs should be metal-poor. Namely, the metal ions increase the opacity of hot gases. The clear hydrogen-helium gases of a subdwarf would conduct a large amount of heat out of the core, causing it to cool down and shut down fusion where an equally massive but metal-rich star would sustain fusion as a red dwarf.

What is the current temperature and spectral class of the most massive brown dwarfs in Population II, like globular clusters?
 
What if iron was hypothetically poured into a brown dwarf until it was more massive than a star? Would it ignite into a star or would it now just be considered a white dwarf?
 
Fusion occurs in the core of a star. If you could somehow infuse a large amount of iron into a star, the denser iron would displace hydrogen from the core - effectively serving as a stellar fusion extinguisher. If the mass infusion was sufficiently large [like a Chandrasekhar mass], it could even trigger a core collapse supernova.
 
Chronos said:
Fusion occurs in the core of a star.
If the fusible nuclei are there.
Chronos said:
If you could somehow infuse a large amount of iron into a star, the denser iron would displace hydrogen from the core
No, it wouldn´t. The speed of iron falling into a star is enough to evaporate the iron, which would mix with hydrogen. Once hot iron vapour is mixed with hydrogen, there will be no efficient way to unmix them, unless they are cooled below the boiling point of iron, which is not the case inside even a brown dwarf.
Chronos said:
- effectively serving as a stellar fusion extinguisher.
Again no.
Even if iron were somehow infused into the core, it would cause the fusion to flare up. Look at red giants! They have a large helium core incapable of fusion. Since they also have lost some hydrogen to stellar wind from top, their hydrogen content is much less than it was back when the same star was on main sequence. Yet although there is no fusion in the core, the fusion outside core happens at a much greater rate than the fusion in the core did when the star was on main sequence.
 
Would you agree the concentration of hydrogen in the core is lowered 'once hot iron vapour is mixed with hydrogen'? Could it be that some of the hydrogen is displaced by iron?

A brown dwarf is not a red giant. It's just a whimpering ember barely able to fuse deuterium. While there is no way to know the effect of dumping a vast amount of iron onto one, I believe it is safe to say it is not going to instantly raise the core temperature high enough to trigger hydrogen shell fusion.
 

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