Calculating Density of Moist Air: Am I Doing it Right?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of the density of moist air, exploring the factors that influence this density, including humidity, temperature, and the presence of different gases. Participants are examining theoretical approaches and mathematical formulations related to this topic.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states the density of dry air as 1.2754 kg/m^3 and proposes a formula for calculating the density of moist air by adding the densities of dry air, CO2, and H2O.
  • Another participant questions the inclusion of CO2 in the calculation, suggesting that it is already accounted for in the density of dry air and emphasizes the role of humidity in affecting air density.
  • A different participant provides a formula for calculating the density of humid air based on temperature, total air pressure, and vapor pressure, introducing the concept of molecular number density and mean molecular mass.
  • One participant highlights that the density of humid air can vary depending on whether the mass of air is kept constant or if the pressure is held constant, noting that humid air is less dense than dry air under the same conditions due to the lower molecular mass of water vapor compared to other air components.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the calculation of moist air density, particularly regarding the inclusion of CO2 and the effects of humidity. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on how to approach the calculation.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various assumptions, such as the conditions under which air density is calculated (constant mass vs. constant pressure) and the implications of molecular masses of different gases. These factors contribute to the complexity of the discussion.

pebbled_ninet
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Hello All,

I am trying to calculate the density of moist air. Am i correct in saying...

density of dry air = 1.2754 kg/m^3

Now i can convert this to mmol/m^3 and

density of dry air = 4.384692933394098e+04 mmol/m^3
at a given point in time
density of CO2 in air = 16 mmol/m^3
density of h2o = 500 mmol/m^3

Am i correct in saying...

density of moist air = (density of dry air)+(density of CO2)+(density of H2o)

Any help at all is much appreciated.
 
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I think it really depends on the humidity of the air. Different amounts of moisture will cause the density of the air to vary. Also, why are you adding in CO2? Isn't that already included in dry air?
 
pebbled_ninet said:
I am trying to calculate the density of moist air.
Any help at all is much appreciated.

The density of humid air is a function of the air temperature, total air pressure, and the vapor pressure. This density is a simple product of the molecular number density (n) per cubic meter and the mean molecular mass (m). That is, d=nm.

The number density can be calculated using the formula n = P/kT, where P is the pressure in Pascals, k is Boltzmann's Constant, and T is the temperature in Kelvins.

The standard mass of a dry air molecule is 48.0985 x 10^-27 kg.
The standard mass of a water vapor molecule is 29.9150512 x 10^-27 kg. This is the VSMOW standard.

Calculate n separately for dry air and water vapor and do the simple maths.
 
There will be a different answer, depending on whether
1. you start with a given mass of air and keep it constant - then add some extra mass in the form of water vapour or,
2. You keep the pressure constant and consider the same total mass as before.

It is important to remember that air is not 'some sort of sponge' which can 'soak up' water vapour. You just have two gases, each with its own partial pressure. Warm air can contain more water vapour simply because the vapour pressure of the water is higher.

It is interesting to note that humid air is less dense than dry air (same conditions) because the molecular mass of H2O is less than that of O2 or N2. That is a bit counter-intuitive, I think.
 

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