Can a Particle at Rest Spontaneously Disintegrate into Multiple Particles?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter lugita15
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Particles
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of a particle at rest spontaneously disintegrating into multiple particles, focusing on the implications for the Law of Conservation of Energy in both classical mechanics and special relativity. Participants explore the conditions under which such disintegration could occur and the energy transformations involved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how a particle at rest can disintegrate into multiple particles without violating the Law of Conservation of Energy, suggesting that potential energy must be involved.
  • Another participant notes that while there may be no external forces on the particle, internal forces between the parts could exist.
  • A different viewpoint emphasizes that disintegration requires some form of internal energy, such as chemical energy, to convert into kinetic energy.
  • One participant argues against the notion of a particle being completely at rest, citing the uncertainty principle related to position and momentum.
  • Several participants highlight that there is no law of conservation of kinetic energy and that other forms of energy must be considered in the context of disintegration.
  • There is a suggestion that the internal potential energy lost during disintegration would equal the kinetic energy of the resulting particles.
  • One participant reiterates the initial question regarding the calculation of the minimum internal energy required for disintegration.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of energy involved in the disintegration process, with no consensus reached on how to reconcile the phenomenon with conservation laws. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of energy transformations and the conditions necessary for disintegration.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of defining energy types and the implications of forces acting on the particle, with some assumptions about the nature of rest and energy not fully explored.

lugita15
Messages
1,553
Reaction score
15
Consider a particle at rest (what I mean is that the particle has no velocity, but also has no force acting on it) that spontaneously disintegrates into more than one particle, e.g. two or three particles. Before the particle disintegrates, there is no kinetic energy in the system. Afterwards, there is kinetic energy.

How do you reconcile this with the Law of Conservation of Energy? Do you assume that the initial particle has some potential energy associated with it? The existence of potential energy implies the presence of a conservative force. But if there were some kind of force acting on the particle, this would contradict the assumption that the particle had no forces acting on it to begin with.

In special relativity, this problem doesn't arise because every particle has a rest energy, m_{0}c^{2}. But what about in classical mechanics? Before Einstein came out with the theory of relativity, was the phenomenon of a particle splitting up into more than one particles a completely unexplainable mystery?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank You in Advanced.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
There's no force on the whole particle, but there might be forces between the parts of the particle.
 
Generally they say, they particles do not disintegrate. Like say a bomb. They chemical energy makes it to go off. This, in view of classical mech, is:

The chemical energy converts to kinetic energy.

There's no chem. energy : - no go off
 
There can't be a particle moving none-at-all, because then we would know it's position and momentum!
 
In any case, there is no "conservation of kinetic energy" law, nor are "kinetic energy" and "potential energy" the only kinds of energy there are! In order to "disintegrate" into two moving parts, there must have been some kind of internal energy that was converted to the kinetic energy of the parts.
 
HallsofIvy said:
In any case, there is no "conservation of kinetic energy" law, nor are "kinetic energy" and "potential energy" the only kinds of energy there are! In order to "disintegrate" into two moving parts, there must have been some kind of internal energy that was converted to the kinetic energy of the parts.
How could one calculate the minimum amount of internal energy required?
 
lugita15 said:
How could one calculate the minimum amount of internal energy required?
The internal potential energy lost would be exactly equal to the kinetic energy of the resulting system of particles.
 
lugita15 said:
Consider a particle at rest (what I mean is that the particle has no velocity, but also has no force acting on it) that spontaneously disintegrates into more than one particle, e.g. two or three particles. Before the particle disintegrates, there is no kinetic energy in the system. Afterwards, there is kinetic energy.

How do you reconcile this with the Law of Conservation of Energy? Do you assume that the initial particle has some potential energy associated with it? The existence of potential energy implies the presence of a conservative force. But if there were some kind of force acting on the particle, this would contradict the assumption that the particle had no forces acting on it to begin with.
You assumed that the particle had no *external* forces acting on it, infact, after disintegration, the system's centre of mass doesn't move at all.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
444
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 38 ·
2
Replies
38
Views
9K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 102 ·
4
Replies
102
Views
7K