Can a Sun Dog Appear Without Clouds?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the phenomenon of sun dogs and whether they can be observed without the presence of clouds. Participants share personal experiences and reference external sources to explore the conditions under which sun dogs appear, particularly focusing on the role of ice crystals and clouds in their visibility.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant observed sun dogs and questioned if they can be seen without clouds, suggesting that clouds may be necessary for visibility.
  • Another participant referenced a Wikipedia article that seems to support the idea that clouds are required to see sun dogs.
  • A participant reflected on their initial assumption about the location of ice crystals, realizing that they do not have to be positioned between the viewer and the sun for sun dogs to be visible.
  • External resources were shared to provide additional information about the phenomenon of sun dogs and the conditions for their appearance.
  • A participant shared a personal experience of seeing a bright light near the sun during unusual weather conditions, contributing anecdotal evidence to the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of clouds for sun dog visibility. While some suggest that clouds are essential, others question this assumption, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference external sources and personal observations, but there are limitations in the assumptions made about the visibility of sun dogs and the role of ice crystals. The discussion does not resolve these uncertainties.

Jimmy Snyder
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I don't know what forum this belongs in. Move it at will. I have already posted this on the APOD discussion site.

Today on the way home from work, I saw a pair of sun dogs. At first I could only see the left one which was in a location where there were some wispy clouds. On the right, I could not see anything except a brightness that was more wishful thinking than sun dog. However, there were no clouds where that sun dog would be. Within 5 minutes, some wispy clouds appeared there and so did the sun dog. I assume therefore that you can't see the sun dog without the background cloud. Is this correct?
 
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cristo said:
The wikipedia article seems to suggest you are correct:
I had assumed that because sun dogs are symmetrically arrayed that the ice crystals were between me and the sun. Now that I think about it, that is not necessarily so. And according to the site, it is not so. That's why there must be a cloud for you to see the sun dog.
 
neutrino said:
If it helps...
It does. Thanks. It confirms that the location of the ice crystals is at the sun dog and not between the viewer and the sun as I had supposed.
 
wow..I saw something last night as well, driving home from work at about 6:10 pm. I was just south of Pearson airport headed west on the 401 in stop and go traffic. The sunset was beautiful. Just above and a little to the west of the sun was a verry bright light. I was looking at this for 10 minuits or so. I should have took a picture as i had a camera with me. Now the weather here was very strange yesterday. 10 or 12 degrees above normal. Very clear humid day, however there were fog patches all over the city all day yesterday. As I got west of Pearson I drove into a fog bank and for several seconds I could see this light shining thru the fog, even though the setting sun was blocked. I was going to post this last night but home life overtook me. Oh yea I did come out of the fog into the clear 10 miniuts later and the sun was down and the light was gone...spookey!
 

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