Can Atmosphere exist in Moon Craters?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of creating and sustaining an atmosphere within moon craters, particularly those that are shielded from direct sunlight. Participants explore the feasibility of generating air from ice in these craters and the implications for human habitation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that a moon crater with an average temperature of -60 Celsius could potentially sustain an atmosphere if air is produced from ice, arguing that the velocity of air molecules would be insufficient to escape the moon's gravity.
  • Another participant counters that the height of moon craters may not be adequate to retain the atmosphere, as air molecules would spread out quickly due to temperature variations on the moon's surface.
  • A follow-up inquiry seeks a formula to quantify the rate at which air molecules would escape from the crater, expressing a belief that the air could remain for an extended period despite potential losses.
  • One participant envisions the construction of "Moon Crater Cities," proposing that converting water ice to air could allow for human settlement without complex life-support structures, contingent on the air pressure being sufficient for flight.
  • Another participant agrees that while creating an atmosphere might be feasible, a dome would be necessary to contain it, and highlights the need to consider radiation issues on the moon's surface.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility of sustaining an atmosphere in moon craters, with some supporting the idea while others raise concerns about the physical limitations and challenges involved. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the practicality of such environments.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various assumptions, such as the temperature conditions and the availability of water ice, which may affect the viability of sustaining an atmosphere. There is also uncertainty regarding the calculations related to molecular escape velocities and the impact of crater height.

Qshadow
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Hi, consider a Moon Crater hidden from direct sunlight that has an average temperature about
-60 celsius (213 K). It is quite possible that somewhere on the Moon such crater exists.
I choose -60 Celsius because it is the average Winter temperature at the South Pole and thus possible lowest at which humans can survive without space suits.

Now consider we produce air from ice in such crater. By my calcualtions this air should not escape from such crater because it's velocity will be lower than needed to overcome the escape velocity of the moon.



Here are the numbers:
1.Average air molecules velocity should be 1/5 of the escape velocity to stay in the crater.
Vair <= 1/5 Ve
Ve >= 5Vair >= 5*SQRT(3*KB*T/Mair)/1000

Were KB is Boltzmann Constant = 1.38E-23 JK^-1
T = 213 K
Mair is Mass of the Air Molecules in Kg = 4.82E-26 Kg
Ve is the escape Velocity of the Moon = 2.38 Km/s

we get Vair = 0.43 Km/s
and 5*Vair = 2.14

2.38 >= 2.14

So is it possible to create such artificial pockets with atmosphere without building any protection structures to keep air from escaping?
Maybe such craters with atmosphere already exist on the Moon (of course not air but maybe some other gas)?

Regards,
Qshadow.
 
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The height of the moon craters is not sufficient to confine the molecules inside - they will spread out quickly, and then you will lose those molecules quickly as parts of the moon are hotter than your crater.
 
mfb said:
The height of the moon craters is not sufficient to confine the molecules inside - they will spread out quickly, and then you will lose those molecules quickly as parts of the moon are hotter than your crater.
Do you have some formula that describes the speed of loosing molecules as a function of crater height?

I would like to be able to calculate this, I feel that it may take hundreds of years to loose the air in the crater through the spreading process.
And the air at the bottom of the crater will stay for a long time.
But I would really like to be able to calculate this.
Thanks,
Qshadow.

P.S.
I found that deepest carters on the moon are about 6Km deep.
So I would like to see if 5-6 Km is not enough to sustain athmosphere, maybe even with some artificial heating if the craters are too cold initially.
 
Last edited:
I imagine that we could build such huge oasises at the bottom of moon craters,
so called Moon Crater Cities!

And maybe even with temperatures above zero (all depends on the speed of such craters loosing air).

To build such city will be very simple, just send equipment that converts water ice to air and you are done!
No need to build any complex life supporting structures, and the heat produced by the converting equipment will heat the crater interior if it is too cold. After enough air is produced, human settlers will arrive, and they could even use air breaking landing which was otherwise impossible on the moon.
Maybe even small planes will be able to flight in such craters if the air pressure will be high enough.
Qshadow.
 
You can apply the same formula for molecular losses to the velocity needed to escape the crater - at a height of 6km, this is just something like 150m/s. Even SF6 will escape from the craters quickly.

To build such city will be very simple, just send equipment that converts water ice to air and you are done!
If there is enough water ice readily available.
And you will need a dome to get an atmosphere. The surface has radiation issues, too, so digging into the ground looks like a good idea anyway.
 

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