Can Black Holes Create Baby Universes?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of whether black holes can create "baby universes," particularly focusing on the nature of singularities and the implications of general relativity and quantum theory. Participants explore theoretical implications, the nature of time at singularities, and the challenges of reconciling different physical theories.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that at the singularity of a black hole, time ceases to exist, leading to the possibility of a baby universe forming, as described in Paul Davies' work.
  • Another participant argues that the understanding of black hole interiors relies on the assumption that general relativity is accurate, while quantum theory complicates this picture, indicating that the true nature of singularities is unknown.
  • A different viewpoint posits that once a singularity is accepted, it opens the door to various speculative ideas, such as the existence of white holes or time travel, but questions the validity of singularities themselves.
  • One participant discusses the perspective of an outside observer, noting that objects falling into a black hole appear to take an infinite time to reach the horizon, raising questions about the nature of singularities and the fate of the universe.
  • There is speculation about the universe's expansion potentially preventing the formation of true black holes, suggesting that some black holes may not have actual singularities, while others may be unreachable from an outside perspective.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the nature of singularities and the implications for black holes and baby universes. There is no consensus on whether singularities exist or what their implications might be, indicating ongoing debate and uncertainty.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the limitations of current theories, particularly the challenges in reconciling general relativity with quantum mechanics, and the unresolved nature of singularities within black holes.

math_04
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This may strike some people as really weird but after reading the book, God and the New Physics by Paul Davies, I came across a paragraph where he explains what happens at the singularity of a black hole. At the singularity, there is no concept of time apparently. So it is impossible to leave a black hole otherwise you would leave before you went in. This is what Paul Davies discussed. Everything is infinite and basically, you would be at time=0, in other words the point where the universe has just begun. For me, this seems like concrete proof of baby universes forming.

Black holes are formed from the gravitational collapse within a star after it has burned out all its nuclear energy. So all that mass collapses and all that mass squeezed down creates incredible gravitational forces. The gravity is so strong that it tears apart space time. This is all from what I have read here and there.

So at that point of singularity, a baby universe forms but obviously is closed away from us due to the laws of physics (infinite density, at time= 0 etc etc). This has probably been mentioned many times but I don't know why it has not been accepted. Any reasons why?
 
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The description of what happens inside a black hole is based on the assumption that general relativity is exact, while quantum theory has no role. The problem with this is that quantum theory is here and trying to reconcile it with G.R. inside a black hole can't be done. The reality is that no one knows what really happens inside a black hole.
 
Basically, once you have a singularity, you can make up any physics you like, such as white holes, new universes, time travel, etc, etc. I have spent a lot of time in this forum and the Relativity forum trying to explain why singularities do not form, but it feels like telling a bunch of kids that Santa Claus does not exist.
 
From the point of view of an observer who will forever remain outside the black hole, anything which falls in will take an infinite time to reach the horizon, and will therefore never reach the singularity (which is beyond the horizon).

That said, there might not be an observer who is capable of remaining forever outside the black hole. If the universe is going to recollapse into a big crunch, one could say that all black holes will eventually coalesce, and everything will, at some time in its history, pass inside. In that case everything reaches the singularity in finite time, and the singularity is simply the end of time; the last moment of the universe.

On the other hand, the universe may be undergoing accelerated expansion. It might be so that a black hole can never properly form, because everything which seemed destined to cross the horizon will actually reappear at some future date, being drawn back by the expansion of space. This would imply that no horizon existed at any stage at all. Or this might be true for some apparent black holes, but not all of them, depending on the details of the accelerated expansion. There might then be apparent black holes, without an actual singularity, and real black holes, with a singularity which cannot be reached (from the point of view of an outside observer) in finite time.
 

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