Can Games Be Fair AND Not Futile?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the concept of fairness in games, specifically whether a game can be both fair and not futile. Participants examine examples and theoretical scenarios related to game strategies and player options.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions if a game can be fair but not futile, suggesting that games like scissors-paper-stone exemplify this.
  • Another participant proposes that if a game allows the first player to forfeit their first move, then the second player cannot have a winning strategy, as the first player could adopt that strategy instead.
  • A different viewpoint argues that the assumption of equal options for all players at all times is flawed, noting that forfeiting a move is still a strategic choice and can lead to scenarios where player 2 has a winning strategy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of forfeiting a move and the nature of fairness in games, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

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Is is possible for a game to be fair but not futile?
 
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Of course. Scissor paper stone is one that is fair but not futile (there is no strategy that forces a draw).
 
Thanks. Here's a follow up: If a game allows the first player to forfeit his first move, then there cannot be a winning strategy for the second player, right? Since if there is such a strategy for player 2, then player 1 could simply forfeit the frist move and adopt the strategy of player 2.
 
That assumes that the same options are open to all players at all times (apart from the first move). It is trivial to give a (trivial) game where 'player 2' has a winning strategy; forfeiting your first move *is still a move*.
 

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