Can I use Separation of Variables like this? (3 terms)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the method of separation of variables in solving partial differential equations (PDEs). Participants explore various approaches to separating variables and question the conditions under which this method is applicable, along with examples of PDEs that may or may not be solvable using this technique.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a PDE and applies separation of variables, leading to a derived relationship involving functions of time and space.
  • Another participant acknowledges that separation of variables can work for certain PDEs, like the 2D wave equation, but emphasizes that it is not universally applicable.
  • A different approach is suggested involving functions of x and y, leading to a similar separation and resulting in constant terms.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the applicability of separation of variables to a specific PDE they propose, indicating that many PDEs may not be solvable analytically.
  • Another participant requests examples of PDEs that cannot be solved by separation of variables, highlighting a lack of general forms for such equations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the applicability of separation of variables to all PDEs. There are multiple competing views regarding the conditions under which this method can be successfully applied, and uncertainty remains about specific examples of unsolvable PDEs.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that many PDEs may not have analytical solutions and that the method of separation of variables is contingent on the specific form of the equation. There is also mention of the potential for numerical solutions in cases where analytical methods fail.

TylerH
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[tex]\frac{\partial z}{\partial t}=\frac{\partial z}{\partial x}+\frac{\partial z}{\partial y}[/tex]
[tex]\mbox{Let }z=T(t)X(x)Y(y)[/tex]
[tex]T'(t)X(x)Y(y)=T(t)X'(x)Y(y)+T(t)X(x)Y'(y) \Rightarrow[/tex]
[tex]\frac{T'(t)}{T(t)}=\frac{X'(x)}{X(x)}+\frac{Y'(y)}{Y(y)} \Rightarrow[/tex]
[tex]\frac{T'(t)}{T(t)}=A \wedge \left(\frac{X'(x)}{X(x)}+\frac{Y'(y)}{Y(y)}=B \rightarrow \frac{X'(x)}{X(x)}=C \wedge \frac{Y'(y)}{Y(y)}=D \right)[/tex]

... and so on.
 
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Yes, separation of variables like that sometimes works. For example, the 2d wave equation for a vibrating drumhead is solved that way. Remember, when you separate the variables like that it will only work if the PDE happens to have solutions like that. So you can always try. Maybe it will work on a particular problem and maybe it won't.
 
How about this?

[tex]f(x) \frac{\partial z}{\partial x} = g(y) \frac{\partial z}{\partial y}[/tex]
[tex]z=X(x)Y(y)[/tex]
[tex]f(x)X'(x)Y(y)=g(y)X(x)Y'(y)[/tex]
[tex]\frac{f(x)X'(x)}{X(x)}=\frac{g(y)Y'(y)}{Y(y)}[/tex]
[tex]\frac{f(x)X'(x)}{X(x)}=A \wedge \frac{g(y)Y'(y)}{Y(y)}=B[/tex]
... and so on.
 
... anyone?
 
TylerH said:
How about this?

[tex]f(x) \frac{\partial z}{\partial x} = g(y) \frac{\partial z}{\partial y}[/tex]

In this case the left side can't depend on y and the right on x so they are both constant. If f and g are not zero then zx=C/f(x) and zy=C/g(y).

Integrating the first gives z(x,y) = F(x) + G(y) where F is the antiderivative of C/f(x).
Differentiating this with respect to y gives G'(y) = C/g(y) so your solution is

z(x,y)=F(x)+G(y) +D
 
Last edited:
OH! I was going about it the wrong way, but with the right technique, I see.

Can you, please, give an example of a PDE that can't be solved by separation (or the general form of one)?

Thanks for your help.
 
TylerH said:
OH! I was going about it the wrong way, but with the right technique, I see.

Can you, please, give an example of a PDE that can't be solved by separation (or the general form of one)?

Thanks for your help.

There is no reason to expect most pde's are solvable that way. Most can't be solved analytically in the first place. I don't think there is a general form for such but likely most any random PDE you might write down wouldn't be solvable that way, or any other way except numerically. Here's a simple first order one I just made up:

ux + uy = sin(xy2)

I don't know it can't be solved by separation of variables, but I doubt it. In fact, I don't know whether it can be solved analytically at all.
 

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