Can Noble Gases Be Used to Create Plasma for Engines?

[AxilAxil]

Understood. Have you read up at all on what plasmerg is doing? If you have, you probably know they don't try to explain what reactions are taking place. They say that after their units are released they will give the details they know to researchers and let them figure it out. They are using 5 of the noble gases in their mixture and a large portion of that volume is xenon. They are creating a virtual cylinder with coils and radiating it with RF. According to their description, they create a pseudo-plasma, initiated by the spark, while squeezing the virtual chamber and applying the RF. They only energize the plasma for an instant which causes a powerful expansion in the cylinder. When they stop the reaction, the expanded gases colapse back to their normal state with a cooling effect. The engine runs optimally at 1800 rpm. Anything higher and they get heat retention and the engine warms. With your knowledge, does this sound feasible? Even plasmerg says they aren't going to try and explain what reactions are taking place.

Referenced interview:

Rohner states his theory.



http://larryseyer.com/media/podcasts/tmdd/TMDD-2012-08-10.MP3





Cheers: Axil

 

[klebrun]

Rhoner only mentions briefly what's going on and in a way that makes me think he has a limited knowledge of physics. He basically reverse engineered the Papp engine from the schematics of the Papp engine controller...Your description of the events that happen within the combustion chamber is the most descriptive I've heard yet. In your opinion Axil does this make sense. Something has to be burning, fusing, or otherwise be used up in order to create an output, even if the process is a nearly 100% efficient use of energy. No energy can be created out of nothing so the gas either burns or there is a fusion event. What's your thoughts?

 

[Drakkith]

Rhoner only mentions briefly what's going on and in a way that makes me think he has a limited knowledge of physics. He basically reverse engineered the Papp engine from the schematics of the Papp engine controller...Your description of the events that happen within the combustion chamber is the most descriptive I've heard yet. In your opinion Axil does this make sense. Something has to be burning, fusing, or otherwise be used up in order to create an output, even if the process is a nearly 100% efficient use of energy. No energy can be created out of nothing so the gas either burns or there is a fusion event. What's your thoughts?

The gas can simply expand and do work without burning or fusing.

 

[klebrun]

200+ horse power out of a spark?

 

[klebrun]

Their data shows inputs of 400kV low amp. Yet their net output claimed is 250 horsepower...250 horsepower could turn a generator effectively producing several kilowatts. Something has to be happening other than a gas excitation. Fuel has to be used. If I'm wrong, I'm confused. True, the gas can simply expand and do work without burning or fusing. But you can't get more out than you put in if this was all that was happening. Rhoner claims a few atoms are destroyed "every once in a while", But through recombination of the gases, there is very little used.

 

[Drakkith]

Yes, and that is exactly why this is considered to be a crackpot design.

 

[AxilAxil]

Rhoner only mentions briefly what's going on and in a way that makes me think he has a limited knowledge of physics. He basically reverse engineered the Papp engine from the schematics of the Papp engine controller...Your description of the events that happen within the combustion chamber is the most descriptive I've heard yet. In your opinion Axil does this make sense. Something has to be burning, fusing, or otherwise be used up in order to create an output, even if the process is a nearly 100% efficient use of energy. No energy can be created out of nothing so the gas either burns or there is a fusion event. What's your thoughts?

I believe that John Rohner has contacts in the physics academic community that provide him with theory. Recombination is one of them. These physics would dearly want to keep their identities secret for fear of losing their jobs. Laymen would never come up with something like recombination and few PhDs would either. We will know in December is this stuff has a basis in fact. Do you plan to attend the trade show?

 

[klebrun]

I won't be able to but i will be watching it closely. Looking forward to it.

 

[Drakkith]

I believe that John Rohner has contacts in the physics academic community that provide him with theory. Recombination is one of them. These physics would dearly want to keep their identities secret for fear of losing their jobs. Laymen would never come up with something like recombination and few PhDs would either. We will know in December is this stuff has a basis in fact. Do you plan to attend the trade show?

What possible reason would they have to be afraid of losing their jobs?

 

[AxilAxil]

I am putting two and two together here. According to J Ronner, the ash of the original Papp engine was a brown powder. J Ronner talks about a two helium atom fusion process. This type fusion does not produce energy (slightly endothermic) in fusing to boron8 atoms.

But all boron isotopes under B11 will decay by fission. There are two conceivable ways in which the excited state in boron-8 could decay by emitting one proton, making a brief pit stop at beryllium-7. However, one of these ways is energy forbidden and the other does not conserve isospin.

While conserving isospin is not a hard and fast rule, if there is any other way for the nucleus to decay, it will jump at that alternative. In this case the alternative, one that is both energy and isospin allowed, is to decay by emitting two protons in one step to an excited state in lithium-6, which is itself an isobaric-analog of the ground state of helium-6. This is the first time that decay by emitting two protons at the same time has been observed between isobaric analog states.

To make a long story short, In this decay channel the fusion of 2 He atoms will possibly end up with a number of sub atomic particles and one helium atom.

Another energetic path (the triple proton chain) is as follows:

1. B8 -> Be8 + positron + neutrino (followed by spontaneous decay...)
2. Be8 -> 2He4(18.074 MeV)

This is what J Rohner must mean by the term Recombination. You start out with two helium atoms and you end up with two helium atoms plus a good deal of energy.


There is some unknowns involving boron 8 decay as follows:

For example, nuclei of boron-8 in the sun decay by spitting out an antielectron and an electron neutrino, and theorists can predict the number of such low-energy solar neutrinos. Researchers measured the actual number in the 1960s, counting rare events in which a chlorine nucleus in a tank of dry-cleaning fluid absorbed an electron neutrino and emitted an electron. They found only one-third as many electron neutrinos as predicted, suggesting that the particles were turning into something else during their trip from the sun to Earth.

 

[Evo]

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