Can Non-Separable ODEs Be Solved with Coordinate Transformations?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the challenges of solving a non-separable ordinary differential equation (ODE) using coordinate transformations. Participants explore various methods and transformations while addressing the dimensionality and physical meanings of the variables involved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a non-separable ODE and seeks methods for solving it through coordinate transformations.
  • Another participant proposes a transformation involving a function F, but notes that F still depends on v, which complicates the separation.
  • A different transformation using E = coth(w) is suggested, but it is acknowledged that the equation remains non-separable.
  • Concerns are raised about the dimensionality of the variables a, c, and v, questioning whether they are dimensionless.
  • A participant admits to an error in the original equation and attempts to clarify the intended form, indicating that derivatives with respect to v and t were omitted.
  • Physical interpretations of the variables E, v, a, t, and c are discussed, with E likened to the gamma factor in relativity.
  • One participant describes a coordinate transformation and derives relationships between the transformed variables, but acknowledges initial mistakes in the dependencies of the transformation functions.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of the function A and its dependence on v, raising questions about the relationship between known and unknown variables.
  • A participant expresses confusion about the circular reasoning involved in the problem, suggesting that the nature of B(v) could lead to an infinite degree ODE.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the variables and the validity of the transformations proposed. There is no consensus on the correct approach to solving the ODE, and several competing ideas remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include unclear definitions of the variables and their dimensionality, as well as unresolved mathematical steps in the transformations discussed.

jk22
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I fell upon such an equation :

$$-E'(v)a(1+\frac{cE(v)}{\sqrt{E(v)^2-1}})=vE(v)+c\sqrt{E(v)^2-1}$$

It's not separable in E on one side and v expression on the other.

So I'm looking for methods to solve this maybe changes of coordinates ?
 
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Assuming E(v) is positive we can transform it to
[tex]-FdE=dv[/tex]
where
[tex]F=\frac{a(1+\frac{c}{\sqrt{1-E^{-2}}})}{E(v+c\sqrt{1-E^{-2}})}[/tex]
 
Last edited:
This does not help since F still depends on v.
 
Ah, you are right.
Then I try
[tex]E=\coth w[/tex] and get
[tex]a(\sinh w +c\cosh w)\frac{dw}{dv}+v\cosh w+c\sinh w=0[/tex]
It is not separable yet.

E should be dimensionless. Are a,c and v are also dimensionless parameters? If not I am afraid there is something wrong in your equation.
 
Last edited:
You're right this equation is wrong. I'll look at the calculation again.
 
jk22 said:
It shall read :

$$-E'(v)*t*a(v+\frac{cE(v)}{\sqrt{E(v)^2-1}})=vE(v)+c\sqrt{E(v)^2-1}$$

But it anyhow is wrong since there shall be derivatives towards v and t.

Thanks for your help.
 
If you explain physical meanings of E, v, a, t ,c and v, I would be able to consider more to help you.
 
E is supposed to be an analog to the gamma factor, t time, a acceleration, c speed of light and v speed.

But the derivation of the equation is wrong. I wrote a coordinate transformation ##x'=A(v,t)x+B(v,t)t##, ##t'=D(v,t)x+E(v,t)t##

The equations are ##c^2t'^2-x'^2=c^2t^2-x^2## and ##\frac{dx'}{dt'}|_{x=0}=-v##

A mistake I made came while computing ##dx'## only with a partial derivative towards ##v##.
 
[tex]x'=Ax+Bct[/tex]
[tex]ct'=Dx+Ect[/tex]
[tex]c^2t'^2-x'^2=(E^2-B^2)c^2t^2-(A^2-D^2)x^2+2(DE-AB)xct[/tex]
So
[tex]E=\cosh \phi[/tex]
[tex]B=\sinh \phi[/tex]
[tex]A=\cosh \psi[/tex]
[tex]D= \sinh \psi[/tex]

[tex]\frac{x'}{ct'}|_{x=0}=\frac{B}{E}=-\frac{v}{c}[/tex]
[tex]\frac{x}{ct}|_{x'=0}=-\frac{D}{A}=\frac{v}{c}[/tex]
So
[tex]\phi = \psi[/tex]
[tex]\tanh\phi=-\frac{v}{c}[/tex]
[tex]E=A= \cosh \phi=\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-v^2/c^2}}[/tex]
[tex]B=D= \sinh \phi=\frac{-v/c}{\sqrt{1-v^2/c^2}}[/tex]
 
Last edited:
  • #10
Nice, I took a wrong start with writing dependencies of ##A,B,D,E## wrt v and t and then taking the differential ##dx'##, making the equations unsolvable.
 
  • #11
The question is explained so vaguely that it's impossible to tell whether a is a function or a constant.
 
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  • #12
But is it a problem that A is a function of v but v is a constant. So when we plot A(v), v varies, but it varies in function of what ? Human free choice or it could be safe to say that the unknowns depends on the known or given variables ?
 
  • #13
Could you please tell us the exact source for this problem?
 
  • #14
I think I got knotted in a circular reasoning :

If B(v), then allowing to change v (for any kind of ground) induces a dv/dt, then the hypothesis was wrong and in fact B(a,v), aso, such that the ODE is of infinite degree since ##B(\{\frac{d^n v}{dt^n}\}_{n=0}^\infty)##
 

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