Can Shock Waves Initiate Protostar Formation?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the role of shock waves in the formation of protostars, particularly whether shock waves can initiate this process independently of supernova events. Participants explore mathematical formulations and physical principles related to shock wave dynamics in astrophysical contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that shock waves are typically associated with supernovae but proposes that they could also play a role in the initial stages of star formation through self-gravitation equations.
  • Another participant identifies the mathematical formulation as resembling the 1-D Navier-Stokes equation, questioning the concept of converging shock waves.
  • A participant expresses skepticism about the likelihood of multiple supernova shock waves converging at a specific location, implying a low probability of such events.
  • One participant clarifies the nature of converging shock waves, arguing that they could compress gas into a small region, potentially raising temperatures enough to facilitate fusion.
  • There is a contention regarding the role of shock waves in the formation of Population III stars, with one participant asserting that models support the involvement of shock waves contrary to common beliefs.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the role and likelihood of shock waves initiating protostar formation, with no consensus reached on the validity of the proposed models or the conditions under which shock waves might be significant.

Contextual Notes

Participants note various assumptions and conditions related to the mathematical models and physical scenarios discussed, including the specific nature of shock waves and the statistical likelihood of supernova events.

hunt_mat
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I have a thought whilst in the shower this morning, it is usually said that shock waves only take part in star formation when other stars have formed and have exploded as supernova sending out a shock wave. Now I have been thinking, the usual equation for self gravitation is given by:
[tex] \frac{d^{2}r}{dt^{2}}=-\frac{Gm}{r^{2}}-\frac{1}{\rho}\frac{\partial p}{\partial r}[/tex]
Upon writing [itex]v=dr/dt[/itex], it is possible to write the acceleration as:
[tex] \frac{d^{2}r}{dt^{2}}=\frac{dv}{dt}=\frac{\partial v}{\partial t}+v\frac{\partial v}{\partial r}[/tex]
So the equation becomes:
[tex] \frac{\partial v}{\partial t}+v\frac{\partial v}{\partial r}=-\frac{Gm}{r^{2}}-\frac{1}{\rho}\frac{\partial p}{\partial r}[/tex]
The above equation is a first order hyperbolic equation which allows the formation of shocks, in this case allows the possibility of converging shock waves from the mathematical standpoint at least.

Thoughts?
 
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You've basically written the 1-D Navier-Stokes equation where pressure and gravity are the only forces present. You can get shock waves applying different conditions like stationary flow. Not sure what you mean by converging shock wave though.
 
The probability of shock waves from more than one supernova converging at any particular point in space is ... low.
 
A converging shockwave is one that converges to a particular point, it doesn't spread out like a detonation wave. So a converging shock would compress the gas to a very small region therefore making it very hot indeed. This I think would be enough to start fusion more easily.

One of the things I keep hearing about is that population III stars didn't have shock waves to get then started which I think is wrong because the equation modelling them does support shock wave and the more I think about it the more I think that the gas coming together under gravity would naturally shock up.
 

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