Can the Movement of Atomic Parts Be Measured in Time?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of measuring time delays in the movement of atomic components, specifically protons and neutrons, and how these movements relate to the behavior of electrons within atoms. The scope includes conceptual understanding of atomic structure and dynamics, as well as implications for nuclear and electronic states.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether it is possible to measure the time delay between the movements of different parts of an atom.
  • Another participant seeks clarification on what is meant by "movement" in the context of atomic parts.
  • A participant expresses confusion regarding the distinction between the movements of protons and neutrons versus electrons, suggesting a need for clarity on nuclear versus electronic states.
  • There is a proposal that electrons are limited to the speed of light and a comparison is made to a "pool ball effect" when atoms are pushed by a force, questioning if similar effects apply to protons and neutrons.
  • Concerns are raised about the nature of electron movement, indicating that electrons do not "move" in a classical sense and that their behavior is better described by quantum mechanics.
  • Another participant questions the interpretation of the "pool ball effect" and discusses the transmission of force in solids, suggesting that nucleons do not play a direct role in atomic interactions as electrons do.
  • It is noted that protons and neutrons within a nucleus may not be easily considered as separate entities, complicating the understanding of their movements.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of atomic movement and the applicability of classical analogies like the "pool ball effect." There is no consensus on how to interpret the movements of protons, neutrons, and electrons, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the behavior of atomic components, particularly regarding the definitions of movement and the complexities of quantum mechanics versus classical physics. The discussion reflects uncertainty about the interactions between nucleons and electrons.

0day
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Physics noob here. I was wondering, is there a way to measure time delay between the movement of one part of an atom from another? Is there any?
 
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"Movement" of what part of an atom?

Zz.
 
I'm trying to get a better grasp on whether protons and neutrons moving are separate or the same in time.
 
Last edited:
0day said:
I'm trying to get a better grasp on whether protons and neutrons moving are separate or the same in time.

This is a bit puzzling.

Typically, when one asks "states of atoms", these are the electronic states.

Asking about protons and neutrons are "nuclear states".

So now I'm confused to what exactly you are asking for.

Zz.
 
Well electrons move at a rate that is supposed to be limited to the speed of light, so for example if a unit consisting of 2 atoms is pushed by a force, it would resemble a pool ball effect correct? But is this same effect true for neutrons and protons? Specifically is there a pool ball effect on protons and neutrons, or are they effectively linked in time?
 
0day said:
Well electrons move at a rate that is supposed to be limited to the speed of light, so for example if a unit consisting of 2 atoms is pushed by a force, it would resemble a pool ball effect correct? But is this same effect true for neutrons and protons? Specifically is there a pool ball effect on protons and neutrons, or are they effectively linked in time?

There are several puzzling issues here:

1. Electrons in atoms/molecules don't actually "move". The quantum description of their states do not have such a description (also see the FAQ subforum on why electrons in an atom don't crash into the nucleus).

2. I'm not sure what you mean by the poll ball effect. Are you thinking of two things colliding physically? In a solid, the simplified model of the atoms arrangement is via linking them with "springs", or as an arrangement of harmonic oscillators. This is how action, or force, is transmitted. The valence electrons are the ones involved in connecting one atom to another. The nucleons are not involved at all in all of this fun, other than collectively undergoing the translation.

3. The activity going on in the nucleus isn't as easy as you think. Often, one can't think of the protons and neutrons being separate entities while they are in the nucleus (that's why often times they are called partons). I'm just not sure to what extent do you want the details.

Zz.
 

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