Can the Set of Rational Numbers Be Counted? And the Irrational Numbers?

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    Cardinality Counting
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the countability of the set of rational numbers and the uncountability of the set of irrational numbers. Participants explore mathematical concepts related to cardinality and provide approaches to demonstrate these properties.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that since the set of integers, Z, is a subset of the rational numbers, Q, and is countable, if they can show that the non-integral rational numbers form a countable set, then Q must also be countable.
  • Another participant proposes setting up a one-to-one mapping between Q and Z as a method to demonstrate the countability of Q.
  • There is a suggestion to show that the union of the real numbers, R, with the irrational numbers leads to an uncountable set, implying that the irrationals are uncountable.
  • One participant questions what the others know about cardinality and whether they have encountered any relevant theorems.
  • Another participant expresses uncertainty about providing examples in their approach.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants have not reached a consensus on the methods to demonstrate the countability of rational numbers or the uncountability of irrational numbers, and multiple approaches are being discussed.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully resolved the mathematical steps or assumptions necessary for their arguments, particularly regarding the definitions of countability and the properties of the sets involved.

dabdobber
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I need help with this math problem:

Show that the set of rational numbers, Q, is countable.

and

Show that the set of irrational numbers is uncountable.
 
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What do you know about cardinality already? Are there any theorems you've seen that might be useful?
What did you try already??
 
well as far as the first one goes I know that the set of integers Z is a subset of Q and that Z is countable. now I make B as the set of all non-integral rational numbers.

if B is countable, then Q is countable because a union of two countable sets is countable.
that's my approach, but I'm not much of an example person.

and for the second one I'm thinking that I can show the union of the reals IR with the irrational, thus making them uncountable as well?
 
1) try and set up a 1:1 map between Q and Z
2) show that no such map exists for R-Q
 

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