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Can we generate HOD clathrate?

  1. Jan 29, 2019 #1
    Hi guys , Is it possible to generate HOD clathrate,I mean making interface of HOD and methane gas. i know there are studies on Methane hydrate(CH4+H20 and CH4+D20) but i could not see any literature about CH4+HOD . While HOD will be prepared from isotopic dillution of h2o and d2o.

    I must say thanks in advance , If any body have idea or any litrature source
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Jan 30, 2019 #2

    TeethWhitener

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    Pure HOD will quickly equilibrate to a mixture of HOD, H2O, and D2O, due to water’s self-ionization.
     
  4. Feb 2, 2019 #3
    At a guess, the bulk will equilibrate thus before it can freeze to methane clathrate.

    Are you thinking about partition of 'heavy methane' etc ??
     
  5. Feb 9, 2019 #4
    Not partition , i am looking for formation of HOD clathrate , just like h2o clathrate and d2o clathrate
     
  6. Feb 9, 2019 #5
    Sorry, per @TW's reply, I'd suggest attempts to make bulk HOD ice would create a mix before a clathrate had time to form.

    I wasn't very good at PhysChem, but I'd expect differential ionisation rates and equilibria between the HO and HD.

    IIRC, this is why tracing biochemical pathways with 'heavy water' requires 'due care', and why bulk 'heavy water' may be considered 'mildly toxic'. My only experience was a little deuteration of some synthesis samples for NMR structure analysis, but we got the 'full-on' safety lecture.

    ( Plus an off-the-record tip on how much beer to bribe the NMR Tech team to 'hold' the goods elevator for the very best baseline in your scans... :wink:)

    OT: Heavy Water may actually be cheaper than many snake-oils peddled but I've vague memories of its regular bulk ingestion being touted as an effective anti-ageing treatment before medical, nuclear and security authorities intervened...
     
  7. Feb 9, 2019 #6

    jim mcnamara

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    @Sain bux - your question was answered by @TeethWhitener - basically you cannot make pure HOD clathrate.

    Why?

    Because liquid HOD self-ionizes (pure HOD -> H2O + HOD + D2O), and so any of the working clathrate synthesis models using HOD instead, will not produce pure HOD clathrate. Or put another way, use the D2O paper.

    Can I ask why you want HOD clathrate? HOD is not 100% stable for long in the liquid phase, which, as a guess, is why the literature does not have much on it.
     
  8. Feb 9, 2019 #7

    jim mcnamara

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    I think we are at an end point on this topic. If anyone has a well-founded opinion different from those expressed above please start another thread.
    Thanks to everyone for helping. Thread closed.
     
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