Can We Truly Define the Largest and Smallest Structures in the Universe?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of defining the largest and smallest structures in the universe, exploring the implications of infinitesimals and the nature of physical structures. It touches on theoretical, conceptual, and philosophical aspects of size in the universe.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether it is possible to find definitive smallest or largest structures in the universe, suggesting that the concepts of infinitesimals and the number line imply an endless nature.
  • One participant notes that the definition of 'structure' is crucial, mentioning that gas clouds can be considered super massive and that clumped matter cannot exceed a certain limit without collapsing into a black hole.
  • Another participant emphasizes the distinction between physics and mathematics, arguing that mathematical concepts of infinity and continuum do not necessarily apply to the physical world.
  • A participant proposes that the universe itself could be considered the largest structure, though they express uncertainty about whether this aligns with the original question.
  • One participant reflects on the relativity of size, suggesting that from a certain perspective, nothing is large and everything is small, drawing a parallel to subjective notions of right and wrong.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the definitions of size and structure, with no consensus reached on whether the largest or smallest structures can be definitively identified. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the dependence on definitions of 'structure' and the philosophical implications of size, indicating that the discussion is influenced by subjective interpretations and unresolved questions about the nature of space and time.

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Will we ever be able to find the smallest or the largest structures of the universe or is that not possible in the way infinitesimals and the number line never end.
 
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Pjpic said:
Will we ever be able to find the smallest or the largest structures of the universe or is that not possible in the way infinitesimals and the number line never end.

Depends what you consider a 'structure'... gas clouds can be super massive for example.

As for clumped matter, you can't put too much matter in one place without it collapsing into a black hole under it's own gravity. And the smallest structures are those of atoms, or possibly the elementary particles themselves depending on how far you want to take it.

Of course it's hard to know you found the 'largest' or 'smallest' of something, because you never know if your going to find something smaller/larger.
 
Pjpic said:
Will we ever be able to find the smallest or the largest structures of the universe or is that not possible in the way infinitesimals and the number line never end.
It is important to understand that physics and mathematics are two completely different subjects. The concepts of infinitesimals and infinity in mathematics says nothing about the physical world. In math the concept of continuum is well defined, but whether or not space or time can be viewed strictly by a continuum model is an open question.
 
I submit that the universe itself is the largest structure, but I don't know if that fits your definition.
 
What is large and what is consider small? If you zoom all the way out nothing is large and everything is small. Thats kinda like determining what is right and what is wrong. :), but who knows, we claim that we did find suns so large that our sun is the size of an Earth to that sun. lol
 

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