Can you describe the metric on the space of positive definite quadratic forms?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the metric structure of the space of positive definite quadratic forms on R², specifically exploring the relationship between this space and the hyperbolic plane. Participants examine the mathematical formulation of the metric and its implications for understanding the geometry of these forms.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the space of positive definite quadratic forms can be represented as GL(2,R)/O(2) and that it has a metric that corresponds to H x R, where H is the hyperbolic plane.
  • One participant describes a Gauss-type decomposition of GL(n,R) matrices and claims a specific form for the general element of the coset GL(2,R)/O(2), provided certain conditions on parameters are met.
  • There is a discussion about the left-invariant metric on GL(2,R), with participants providing the same mathematical expression for it and noting its normalization for convenience.
  • Some participants inquire about a geometric interpretation of the metric, suggesting a mapping from ellipses to the Poincare disk and discussing how the factor of R relates to scaling these ellipses.
  • One participant suggests that the metric's structure is consistent with known relationships in Lie group geometry, although they do not specify particular applications.
  • Another participant presents a detailed mapping of ellipses to the Poincare disk and questions the accuracy of their interpretation of the metric's implications.
  • Participants express uncertainty about the importance of the metric in practical applications, with one noting a lack of specific applications in mind.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of viewpoints regarding the metric and its geometric interpretation, with no clear consensus on the implications or applications of the metric for positive definite quadratic forms. Some aspects of the discussion remain unresolved, particularly regarding the geometric picture and its correctness.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of the topic, with discussions involving multiple parameters and mappings that may depend on specific definitions and assumptions. The relationship between the metric and the geometry of positive definite quadratic forms is still being explored.

lavinia
Science Advisor
Messages
3,385
Reaction score
760
I am told that the set of positive definite quadratic forms on R^2 has a metric that turns it into

H x R where H is the hyperbolic plane. Can you describe this metric?

* As a space the forms are viewed as GL(2,R)/O(2).
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Let's note that there's a Gauss-type decomposition of GL(n,\mathbb{R}) matrices as

\mathcal{M} = U D \mathcal{O},

where U is upper-triangular (with 1s on the diagonal), D is diagonal (with \det{D}>0) and \mathcal{O} is orthogonal (in O(n)). I claim that

M = \begin{pmatrix} 1 & \sqrt{2} x \\ 0 & 1 \end{pmatrix} \begin{pmatrix} r y & 0\\ 0 & r/y \end{pmatrix},

is the general element of the coset GL(2,\mathbb{R})/O(2) provided that r,y>0.

We can place the usual left-invariant metric on GL(2,\mathbb{R}), which will induce the metric

ds^2 = \frac{1}{2} \text{Tr} \left[ (M^{-1} dM) (M^{-1} dM) ^T\right],

= \left( \frac{dr}{r}\right)^2 + \frac{1}{y^2} \left( dx^2 + dy^2 \right)

on the coset. The space is therefore GL(2,\mathbb{R})/O(2) = H \times \mathbb{R}^+. Note that this is consistent with H = SL(2,\mathbb{R})/SO(2) and \mathbb{R}^+ = \mathbb{R}/\{ 1,-1\}.
 
fzero said:
Let's note that there's a Gauss-type decomposition of GL(n,\mathbb{R}) matrices as

\mathcal{M} = U D \mathcal{O},

where U is upper-triangular (with 1s on the diagonal), D is diagonal (with \det{D}>0) and \mathcal{O} is orthogonal (in O(n)). I claim that

M = \begin{pmatrix} 1 & \sqrt{2} x \\ 0 & 1 \end{pmatrix} \begin{pmatrix} r y & 0\\ 0 & r/y \end{pmatrix},

is the general element of the coset GL(2,\mathbb{R})/O(2) provided that r,y>0.

We can place the usual left-invariant metric on GL(2,\mathbb{R}), which will induce the metric

ds^2 = \frac{1}{2} \text{Tr} \left[ (M^{-1} dM) (M^{-1} dM) ^T\right],

= \left( \frac{dr}{r}\right)^2 + \frac{1}{y^2} \left( dx^2 + dy^2 \right)

on the coset. The space is therefore GL(2,\mathbb{R})/O(2) = H \times \mathbb{R}^+. Note that this is consistent with H = SL(2,\mathbb{R})/SO(2) and \mathbb{R}^+ = \mathbb{R}/\{ 1,-1\}.

what is the usual left invariant metric on GL(2,\mathbb{R})?
 
lavinia said:
what is the usual left invariant metric on GL(2,\mathbb{R})?

It's

<br /> ds^2 = \frac{1}{2} \text{Tr} \left[ (\mathcal{M}^{-1} d\mathcal{M}) (\mathcal{M}^{-1} d\mathcal{M}) ^T\right].<br />

The normalization is put in for convenience. \mathcal{M}^{-1} d\mathcal{M} is the Maurer-Cartan form.
 
fzero said:
It's

<br /> ds^2 = \frac{1}{2} \text{Tr} \left[ (\mathcal{M}^{-1} d\mathcal{M}) (\mathcal{M}^{-1} d\mathcal{M}) ^T\right].<br />

The normalization is put in for convenience. \mathcal{M}^{-1} d\mathcal{M} is the Maurer-Cartan form.

Thanks. I will do some reading about this.

Do you have a simple geometric picture of this metric? Start with an ellipse centered at the origin of R^2. Map it onto the Poincare disk somehow. Then maybe the factor of R comes from uniformly scaling the ellipses.
 
Last edited:
lavinia said:
Thanks. I will do some reading about this.

Do you have a simple geometric picture of this metric? Start with an ellipse centered at the origin of R^2, map it onto the Poincare disk somehow. Then maybe the factor of R comes from uniformly scaling the ellipses.

The factor of \mathbb{R}^+ corresponds to the determinant of a matrix in the component GL(n,\mathbb{R})^+ connected to the identity. The metric we found is consistent with the well known fact that GL(n,\mathbb{R})^+=SL(n,\mathbb{R})\times \mathbb{R}^+.
 
fzero said:
The factor of \mathbb{R}^+ corresponds to the determinant of a matrix in the component GL(n,\mathbb{R})^+ connected to the identity. The metric we found is consistent with the well known fact that GL(n,\mathbb{R})^+=SL(n,\mathbb{R})\times \mathbb{R}^+.

Ok. This is helpful.

Does this picture work?

Each positive definite quadratic form determines an ellipse, its ellipse of unit vectors.

An ellipse has three parameters, the lengths of its two axes and its angle of tilt to the xy-coordinate axes.
The subset that are rotations of ellipses with tilt angle zero and fixed x-axis length, (They are rotations of ellipses with equation, x^2 + y^2/b^2 = K) form a two parameter family.
(By convention, angles of rotation can be chosen to be between 0 and pi (the interval, [0,pi), and the first axis can be chosen to be the one that lines up with the x-axis when the rotation is undone. )

For each ellipse in this 2 parameter family, map it to the point in the Poincare disk whose angle is twice the tilt angle and whose Euclidean distance to the origin is |k1 - k2|/k1 + k2 where k1 and k2 are the lengths of its axes.

This two parameter family looks like the Poincare disk under this mapping. As the x-axis length is varied to account for all positive definite quadratic forms, the entire set looks like the Cartesian product of the Poincare disk with the open half line of positive real numbers.

Is this the correct picture?

What is the importance of this metric for understanding the space of positive definite quadratic forms?
 
Last edited:
I would identify your K with \mathbb{R}^+ in the coset, then the ratio of axis lengths b and tilt angle form the UHP. I think you're still mapping the ratio and tilt angle to the Poincare disk, so you might find that the metric on your space is in the same conformal class as the one on the UHP.

As far as the importance of the metric, I have no specific applications in mind for doing geometry on the space of positive definite quadratic forms. That is not to say that there aren't any. I just happened to be aware of some Lie group geometry that could shed some light on your original question.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
4K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
4K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
5K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K